I agree O'Loughln has performed well for England in the past. On Sunday that first 40 mins though, On many occasions when he was involved in a tackle he was threatening to be penalised, shouting at the tv for him to smarten up.

It will be interesting to see if the penalty count is 7-2 in our favour next week with an Aussie ref.

The same ref who sent Ryan Hall's try in the 2014 Four Nations up as a no try, which his brother the VR upheld.

At the end of the day we got a lot of calls in our favour on Sunday, so can't see us getting that again, regardless of what nationality the ref is.

The balance of the squad is laughable. Percival, Cuthbertson were very unlucky not to be named and I can see it coming back to bite Mcbanana.

Missing Walmsley, G Burgess, Reed and Samkins was always going to be a loss but he hasn't covered for them very well in depth.

He doesn't seem to have a plan beyond emulating Wigans style and tactics.

Selections aside, he (or any England coach) simply doesn't have the time with the side to develop anything a great deal more complex imo. True too of other international sides but the top ones simply do the basics a bit better than we tend to, with the occasional truly gifted back thrown into the mix. FWIW I don't think we will be found out in this series thanks to our fearsome pack. But the number of series we can expect to win in this way is probably quite small.

It's not just your opinion, we don't have our squad together or play the number of games required for an international coach to develop any pattern or style of play. Our England coach has to do two things, pick the squad effectively and put the most suitable team out on the pitch, and get them mentally in the right place to win.
I think we have gone for a Wigan "style" attacking structure, we tried to overload the left side several times on Sunday (Willaims, Farrell and Bateman) but couldn't execute. I suspect that is one of the reasons Bateman got the gig at left centre. It actually makes more sense than trying to emulate how Leeds have played this year which relies on a lot of instinctive understanding between the players who know each other really well. We also have to accept that our halves are not particularly naturally creative or quick on their feet. It would be nice to have seen a kicking game a bit better than total garbage, but Widdop looks a poor kicker at best, the other options were Roby from dummy half and Williams - neither look brilliant to be honest.
Thankfully poor discipline from NZ gave us all the field position and possession we needed second half.

I think McGuire was very unlucky not to get a call up for the Kicking Game and Playmaking.

i agree mate.But aftet a long hard year it will now be good from a Leeds POV that the likes of McGuire,Burrow,Ablett and Cuthbertson, all of whom could have had genuine claim for selection, get some quality rest and pre season.

Yeah mate, definitely benefits Leeds. Just a shame, because Mags will have wanted that call-up. He's not getting any younger.

International rugby is all about winning, yet still coaches try and build for a future that never materialises. Mags was well worth a place in that squad on merit but I suspect he would be seen as a step backwards.

Some might see him as a step backwards, but to be honest, he's been very unlucky with Injury which has stopped him being selected for England, even when he is without doubt one of the top 3 Halves in the Competition.

I would have looked upon his selection as very logical for the 2015 Test against New Zealand, but unfortunately we are dealing with McBanana and Jimmy 'Shows Himself Up Live On Camera' Lowes (The Bradford Rejects).

England won didn't they?
McGuire has had plenty chances and like many others failed, his time as an almost 33 year old has passed.

Mags is still better than Williams and Smith, 33 years old or not

Williams has potential, no problem with him. They should be planning towards 2017 world cup with the squads for this series and the four nations next year.

Sean O'Loughlin says hi.

The difference is O'Loughlin very rarely plays poorly for England.

I just wish fans would put club loyalties aside and support the team. If you're there on Saturday I'll pm you my mobile number, come and have a chat.

When was mags last game for England? Was it the Aussies at the JJB in 2009?

I do and will be supporting the team. Bit rich asking to put club loyalties aside when that's clearly what's going on in your view of McGuire. In truth, he and O'Loughlin have had very similar international careers. O'Loughlin is England captain and loose-forward on merit despite not quite being the player he used to be, and probably not being around for the 4N/WC. Any argument you can make for or against his selection you can make for or against McGuire. (I actually argued *against* McGuire's selection in favour of Williams on another thread (check that for club bias), but
O'Loughlin doesn't have a young gun LF ready to take his place right now.

Could the same be said of Sam Tomkins? Albeit younger than McGuire but more appearances against NZ and Australia, yet still hasn't produced a performance against either that is above average.

If Hardaker performs well he should keep the position, no problem with that at all.

I think McGuire should be in the squad before Matty Smith, and I think he'd do well with either Williams, or Widdop in the halves, as it seems to me none of the pivots in the squad seem to be able to pass the ball more than 10 yards to either side, McGuire would at least be able to provide early ball to the back line, even though you would lose a bit of pace in the midfield.

Smith was very fortunate to be picked. Three halfbacks would have been fine, another forward or centre would have been my choice.

What is this insistence on picking players for the future? It's stupid. It makes these Test series in to nothing more than a bunch of meaningless friendlies, when they should be considered the pinnacle of the game like they are in Cricket for example.

I fully support the team. Please find an evidence to say otherwise.
So it's disloyal to suggest Mags should have been in contention for the squad? He plays a very different game now to one he played the last time he was called up and it is one that I think would add considerably to the current England squads options.