Yes they might end up with the same trophy haul.......what's that got to do with what I posted though?

Of course this is possible and it is what makes sport interesting.

Most on here predicted we would finish outside the top four and most on here would have sacked McDermott every year since he came so I am not sure that anyone else will lose much sleep if they are underwhelmed again.

However it would be a rather odd for a rugby fan to be underwhelmed with the excellent rugby entertainment we have enjoyed this year.

To be fair that's sort of the point. We've already lost a key player in Aiton so the quality of the team and what you win aren't necessarily the same (sport always requires an element of luck)... Hence plenty on here have suggested 2005 was our best side even though it ended up empty handed.

As they say you can't please all of the people all of the time...

Amazing innit really. The greater the success the greater the demands. I wonder if HKR supporters would have been underwhelmed in "just winning the CC" ?
I have been one of McDermott's greatest critics: not any more. I can honestly say that if Leeds "just win the CC" again I would be extremely happy ..the recruitment, style of play and overall quality of performances this season IMO is to be applauded.

IF Leeds do not win another trophy it will be because of further bad luck on the injury front to key individuals. For that reason I would still class the team this year as the best team I have ever seen in my 37 years of watching Leeds regardless of trophies in the cabinet.

Arguably maybe not every position presently has the best individual in it ever; but that is not the question .... "Team" is the operative word here...and I think the team that has coalesced this season has reached a pinnacle that might never be matched again in my lifetime.
The old hands playing as well as they ever had combined with the younger element playing with ever increasing understanding of each others' abilities and styles is a real joy to watch. Everyone knows their role and everyone plays it with real commitment to one other.

It seems some people are just never satisfied.

Of course if we see a lack of effort in the forthcoming matches it might have an impact on my opinion, but somehow I don't see that as a possibility. This 'team' plays with real pride ...the way it has demonstrably wanted to nil the opposition with commited defence after building a healthy lead is particularly admirable.

Whilst you can arguing the "best team" till the cows come home, as we say in the dales, I would be happy to stick to the statement that this is the most exciting team we have seen, mixing in style of play, potential of success this year and stand out players. To add in I have always seen the CC as the more exciting final game...... the old cup romance maybe

By the measure of being able to Nil an opposition as opposed to wanting to this year's Leeds team have a modest record so far - not even the best season yet under the present coach - 2011.

Tony Smith's Leeds nilled their opposition three times in each of his three seasons in charge and you have to go back to 1972/73 to find a season where Leeds nilled their opponents four times - Derek Turner.

Could this be the best Leeds side ever? Well ever is a long time and Leeds have produced three or perhaps four teams worthy of a shout but for me still the team assembled under Roy Francis in the late sixties defined (and redefined)the sport I fell in love with. Sheer poetry in motion from Risman at the back to Batten at the base of the scrum. (Five of the backs from that golden era - Atkinson, Hynes, Seabourne, Shoebottom and Smith - went down under with GB in 1970 and brought back the Ashes and we haven't held them since.)

Surprising how rare nillings actually are (I assumed they may have been more common before the summer era). Have Leeds ever nilled the opposition in a major final before last week?

Its hard to look at individual years, particularly from different periods. even from the same era, people talk about Sts 2006 but its hard to say it was a "great" side as it didn't win in the two years before or many afterwards. I'd say the Leeds 2005 team at its best would have given Sts 2006 a real game.

The club has had maybe four or five great "eras" - with Eric Harris pre-war, the Lewis Jones era, the late 60s, the mid-late 70s and then 2004+. What's different this time is just how long its lasted, and the team's win rate of the major trophies is much higher than ever before. John Atkinson won shedloads of winners medals, but in terms of the major competitions he "only" won 2 championships and 3 challenge cups. That's simply dwarfed by Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire with 6 championships and 2 challenge cups.

Based on what measurement?
I firmly believe that you are Kelvin Skerrett's barsteward son.

You'd love it if that happened wouldn't you? That'd keep you busy all winter.

Anyway, whilst you're dreaming of Leeds fluffing the LLS and missing out on Grand Final victory please don't forget to PM me some kind of proof that you've covered your bet.

Thanks

Probably all of them.
Speed, power, strength, tackling ferocity, tackling technique, passing accuracy, fitness, lines of running, kicking accuracy etc etc

Name a measurement and I'm 99.9% certain it'll be better today.

It's not seriously up for debate is it?

The simplest thing is to have a look at old clips on that video site. Watching cup finals from the 70s you can see how small almost all backs were, how ragged defences were and its simply not the same game at all. The 80s and even 90s look similarly outdated. Its entertaining to watch, but seeing defensive lines all over the place (including in the NRL in the 90s) its clear that teams from today would physically demolish those from other eras.

Anyone old enough will remember Wally Lewis amazing everyone with his ability to fire a long spinning pass over 20+ yards. Now there are probably 3/4 players in every team who can do that (albeit not as accurately in most cases).

Quite the opposite - I hope they win the lot it is what the players deserve, they are the best side by a distance.

This site would be very boring if we all shared your opinions, as it would if everyone shared mine. The point of a board is to be a catalyst for a broad spectrum of views to be expressed i.e. debate. Our opinions are polarised but their are plenty of people with views that differ from you or I - that is why this is best board on here.

On the bet not a problem - I am on holiday at the moment will PM you some proof on my return.

The other problem for Leeds now is that teams seem to be more focused on beating Leeds rather than trying to do something for themselves. You see the media interviews this week, and it is all about stopping Leeds, not whether they will replace them.

Surely beating Leeds will be helping themselves - especially Saints who could drop out of the four if they don't start winning soon. Beating the best side in the competition should be every team's objective. My worry would be injuries incurred from foul play - fortunately Leeds have already played Wigan!!

It's nothing to do with individual players - there's not many Ellery Hanley's in SL ATM - but the conditioning, preparation, coaching, fitness, physical & mental strength are light years ahead. I know most inbred hillbillies like to pretend all teams were professional during that period, but they weren't. It was 1.5 to 2 hours flogging yourself until you were on the edge of puking on Tuesday & Thursday nights, followed by a couple of pints & a gallon more & a curry on Friday. Preparation for a game was not going out on a Saturday night.
As regards Skerrett, I did play against him, he scored a hat-trick in about the first 30 minutes then was taken off. The barsteward.

That is what I am talking about. Their focus appears to be to beat Leeds, probably at all costs, rather than what they end up with. Saints are not going to drop out of the top four, a defeat or win against Leeds this week, is not going to define their season. A win against Leeds in a play off game would.

Wigan were the same in the media. Rather than talk about themselves and what they are doing, it was about beating Leeds.

I agree with this!

Manly ended the Warriors season in one tackle.

Saints are in that position where they need to kick start the super 8s somehow - a win against Leeds would help their confidence no end - bet to go down all guns blazing than disappear with a whimper?

Saints are unlikely to drop out of the 8 as the only team capable of displacing them are Cas who will struggle to win another game this season.

You meant to type 4 I'd guess.
& you're correct it seems to me based on how the sides are currently playing that the top 4 will be Leeds, Wigan, Huddersfield & either Saints or Cas. My money would always be on Saints in that situation. Now is no different.
Leeds
Wigan
Huddersfield
St Helens
The above is most likely to be the final position.

Saints desperately need to claw back some sort of mental edge against Leeds. They have been beaten three times by Leeds this season, two of those convincing victories.

They have to be able, for their own peace of mind if nothing else, to remind themselves that they are capable of beating Leeds when it comes to the big games. What better way to do that than to pick up a win on Friday?

Saints have had a good a record at our place in recent years. With Wilkin back and being fresh and determined to get out of the slump (you would assume) then they are more than capable of beating us on friday. Imo if we get them in the play off semi at home, as seems very likely, they have a far better chance at beating us at Headingley than at OT.

If I interpret your use of major here correctly - Leeds nilled Dewsbury in the Challenge Cup Final 2nd leg of 1942/43 while Leeds themselves were nilled in the 1929/30 Championship Final replay by Huddersfield and by Widnes in the 1991/92 Regal Trophy Final.

If you were then to look at the Yorkshire Cup - required as many wins as this year's CC ie 4 - Leeds nilled Featherstone, Wakefield, Wakefield and York in 1929, 1933, 1935 and 1936 respectfully.

Apart from Jonathan Davies et al destroying Leeds at Central Park I suspect only Juan on here will remember seeing these games.

Thanks

All before my time aside from the regal trophy game which I attended. God that was awful (but then there were so many awful days back in the 90s and in those days -unlike now ironically- I barely missed a game offiahs 10 tries, that OT stuffing by wigan and the 95 cc final always particularly stick in the memory)