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| Ward may deserve another year, but IMO that's about it. If the future for him is as a second row I really don't think he'll ever make much unless he changes his style dramatically - check out Boyd Cordner, Ryan Hoffman etc for a how a smaller second row can be incredibly effective, which he as yet is not.
If he wants to be a ball-handler then his best option is more likely to be a year playing somewhere else to get experience - he's hardly going to be given that role at Leeds. He may be yet to turn 21 or whatever but he's played more than 50 games.
I'd say the same for Singleton too. He's played almost 50 games (albeit not many minutes in many), but I've yet to see much evidence of anything other than an undersized prop.
I'd really expect a quality young fringe first-teamer to put in at least the odd display that screams at the coach to pick them ahead of someone else. Hand on heart, how many games have either Ward, or Singleton (or some of the others) actually done that?
the reason I mention it is because how often do we hear comments about "giving players time to develop" etc etc and yet they never do. For every quality late developer like Peacock there are hundreds who if anything go backwards.
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Club Owner | 937 | No Team Selected |
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| We should have gone for Todd Carney. The opportunity to sign world class half backs very rarely comes about.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Ward may deserve another year, but IMO that's about it. If the future for him is as a second row I really don't think he'll ever make much unless he changes his style dramatically - check out Boyd Cordner, Ryan Hoffman etc for a how a smaller second row can be incredibly effective, which he as yet is not.
If he wants to be a ball-handler then his best option is more likely to be a year playing somewhere else to get experience - he's hardly going to be given that role at Leeds. He may be yet to turn 21 or whatever but he's played more than 50 games.
I'd say the same for Singleton too. He's played almost 50 games (albeit not many minutes in many), but I've yet to see much evidence of anything other than an undersized prop.
I'd really expect a quality young fringe first-teamer to put in at least the odd display that screams at the coach to pick them ahead of someone else. Hand on heart, how many games have either Ward, or Singleton (or some of the others) actually done that?
the reason I mention it is because how often do we hear comments about "giving players time to develop" etc etc and yet they never do. For every quality late developer like Peacock there are hundreds who if anything go backwards.'"
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Ward may deserve another year, but IMO that's about it. If the future for him is as a second row I really don't think he'll ever make much unless he changes his style dramatically - check out Boyd Cordner, Ryan Hoffman etc for a how a smaller second row can be incredibly effective, which he as yet is not.
If he wants to be a ball-handler then his best option is more likely to be a year playing somewhere else to get experience - he's hardly going to be given that role at Leeds. He may be yet to turn 21 or whatever but he's played more than 50 games.
I'd say the same for Singleton too. He's played almost 50 games (albeit not many minutes in many), but I've yet to see much evidence of anything other than an undersized prop.
I'd really expect a quality young fringe first-teamer to put in at least the odd display that screams at the coach to pick them ahead of someone else. Hand on heart, how many games have either Ward, or Singleton (or some of the others) actually done that?
the reason I mention it is because how often do we hear comments about "giving players time to develop" etc etc and yet they never do. For every quality late developer like Peacock there are hundreds who if anything go backwards.'"
Agree with everything above,spot on.
With regard to Todd Carney,quality player,but with a poor disciplinary record is he the type of player we want,don't know if he would get a visa over here anyway?
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| Quote ="Dwayne Dibley"Agree with everything above,spot on.
With regard to Todd Carney,quality player,but with a poor disciplinary record is he the type of player we want,don't know if he would get a visa over here anyway?'"
That visa requirement is something many of us overlook...getting one for the UK is tough. Obviously more tough than getting one for France thus giving Catalans greater opportunity to sign the NRL reprobates. (didn't Huddersfield try to sign Carney but fail because of the visa? Leeds also had all sorts of problems with Eastwood too along these lines)
As a matter of interest do the Catalan Aussies need to apply for a work visa each time they fly up for their away matches? Even as 'visitors' on their passports i would have thought it was tricky to be entering a foreign country on so many occasions each season???
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| Quote ="nantwichexile"That visa requirement is something many of us overlook...getting one for the UK is tough. Obviously more tough than getting one for France thus giving Catalans greater opportunity to sign the NRL reprobates. (didn't Huddersfield try to sign Carney but fail because of the visa? Leeds also had all sorts of problems with Eastwood too along these lines)
As a matter of interest do the Catalan Aussies need to apply for a work visa each time they fly up for their away matches? Even as 'visitors' on their passports i would have thought it was tricky to be entering a foreign country on so many occasions each season???'"
I'm presume once France have issued them he Visa, EU law means they're then permitted into the UK - though that could be totally wrong.
Leeds wouldn't have got a visa for Carney, but Salford could - as per the Rangi Chase situation where Hull couldn't get him a Visa, but the Doc could. I have a feeling the Doc might be 'off shoring' contracts to get round the issue somehow, or he's got a very willing 'contact' somewhere.
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| Quote ="Worlds Apart"Certainly, a ballsy approach for McDermott to take would be to retire McGuire & give Sutcliffe the 6 shirt'"
It certainly would be, given that there have been few indications (yet) that Sutcliffe can do anything that McGuire can't. TBH, Sutcliffe looks more of a LF to me. That's not to say we don't need change at half back, just that I don't see Sutcliffe as the man for the job.
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| Quote ="Superted"I'm presume once France have issued them he Visa, EU law means they're then permitted into the UK - though that could be totally wrong.'"
More or less.
Catalans will have 'sponsored' his visa. In simple terms, his visa allows him to travel to the UK if the nature of the business that Catalans Dragons operates in requires him to work temporarily in the UK.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"It certainly would be, given that there have been few indications (yet) that Sutcliffe can do anything that McGuire can't. TBH, Sutcliffe looks more of a LF to me. That's not to say we don't need change at half back, just that I don't see Sutcliffe as the man for the job.'"
Totally agree with this. Sutcliffe has done nothing to suggest he is our future yet.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"It certainly would be, given that there have been few indications (yet) that Sutcliffe can do anything that McGuire can't. TBH, Sutcliffe looks more of a LF to me. That's not to say we don't need change at half back, just that I don't see Sutcliffe as the man for the job.'"
McGuires cut out pass is the best at the club. He is our main playmaker, he may be slow and can't get through the gaps he used to, he will still be hard to replace until we find someone who can work the wider players well.
As yet, Sutcliffe looks to be more of a runner, though not as dangerous as the likes of Burrow and McGuire, though the platform has not been there for him. McGuire developed his playmaking over the years, and Sutcliffe still could.
its a dilema, as we could bin McGuire and throw Sutcliffe / Ward into his spot, and see if they thrive on the situation. It could work, or it could fail massively.
The alternative is that we keep McGuire around and try to transition. The problem with that is that neither player gets what they want, and Sutcliffe doesn't get the chance to be the main man he thinks he needs. McDermott seems to have favourites, and if McGuire was in the squad I'd expect him to be playing. In reality I think the best solution would be to give Sutcliffe or Ward the starting 6 shirt, and leave McGuire some time on the sidelines. We then have the opportunity to bring him back in if things aren't working out
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International Star | 1309 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Worlds Apart"Brad Singleton isn't yet 22. Jamie Peacock didn't make his *debut* for Bradford until he was 22. Singo's shown a lot of promise and him not being the finished article so early in his career is understandable. No-one is saying he'll be a first choice prop next year. But he might be in 2-3 years when, at 25, we should be able to get a handle on his career.
Kirke I've already said should be on the way out. Clarkson I'd give 2 more season to at most. Again, he's only 24.
We've already signed Cuthbertson who'll be a starting prop next year, and I agree a new stand off is needed. I'd be delighted with Foran but can't see it - I think Ratchford is likely to be the best available.'"
Ratchford has just signed a New Deal with Warrington, keeping him there until the end of 2018.
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| If you really need a prop, I suppose we could let you have Dudson.
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| Quote ="CM Punk"If you really need a prop, I suppose we could let you have Dudson.
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We'll do a swap for Ryan Bailey
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| I'm not sure where these people are looking who see "a lot of promise" in Singleton.
Under-sized, doesn't win enough collisions, has very ordinary ball retention in contact. A prop version of Stevie Ward, except not as fragile.
I doubt he would be in the match-day 17 of any of the top eight clubs.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"I'm not sure where these people are looking who see "a lot of promise" in Singleton.
Under-sized, doesn't win enough collisions, has very ordinary ball retention in contact. A prop version of Stevie Ward, except not as fragile.
I doubt he would be in the match-day 17 of any of the top eight clubs.'"
I guess very few at his age do look the part. There are some exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. He certainly has potential to be a better standard than Bailey or Kirke, though he may be no Burgess (George or Sam) or Graham.
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| He'll be what, 22 at the start of next season?
If he had come on leaps and bounds from where he was at 18/19 then I might agree he needs time to develop. Sadly, he hasn't IMO.
He's stagnated, and looks like he's hit a plateau. Not convinced there's much to come that we haven't already seen. Certainly wouldn't want him blocking the way for the likes of Baldwinson or Mulhern to get more time in the first team.
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| In all honesty i think it is a real important pre season and 2015 for Ward and Singleton. Ward has really struggled to cement a role within the team, he really needs to bulk up if he is going to play in the back row which looks to be where he will end up. As far as Singleton goes i am with Andy, i'm not really seeing too much progression from when he first broke into the squad TBH.By 2016 when JP and Kylie have gone he may be put into the position of being a pack leader and he looks far from being the required standard for that role right now.
Im not writing either player off yet , both are still young enough to become top players, but we need to start seeing a return on the potential soon.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"In all honesty i think it is a real important pre season and 2015 for Ward and Singleton. Ward has really struggled to cement a role within the team, he really needs to bulk up if he is going to play in the back row which looks to be where he will end up. As far as Singleton goes i am with Andy, i'm not really seeing too much progression from when he first broke into the squad TBH.By 2016 when JP and Kylie have gone he may be put into the position of being a pack leader and he looks far from being the required standard for that role right now.
Im not writing either player off yet , both are still young enough to become top players, but we need to start seeing a return on the potential soon.'"
Agree 100%. Although whether Ward [ican[/i actually bulk up is a moot point.
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| Leeds have a lot of difficult decisions ahead concerning the best positions and game time to give several promising players. I fear a period of Saints-style mediocrity will ensue unless the right decisions are made, and these decisions need to be made soon. Unfortunately it is an indictment on the current youngsters that they have been unable to oust the creaking older generation on the basis of sheer form, as McGuire, Burrow, Bailey and others were able to do in 2003-4. We do not appear to have another McGuire or a Tomkins type-player (in ANY position!) who is simply too good to be left out, however old he may be.
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| Danny McGuire has a lost that yard of pace that enables a player to burst through a gap.
I think he should be good for one more season, mainly because he is still a good allround footballer.
Danny's wembly performance normally would have been man of the match. Hall scoring his vital trys probably tipped things in his favour.
With regards to signing new players, at the moment I can't see anybody in the uk who is available and good enough for us.
Things may change when the season closes, or if we put the word out in Australia we are looking to recruit.
I would think some of this squad may be moved on sooner than later . Probably to free up some salary cap space.
I would like Achurch to be given more game time, I think he has potential but at the moment lacks experience.
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| Quote ="Backwoodsman"
I would like Achurch to be given more game time, I think he has potential but at the moment lacks experience.'"
Achurch is 26 now and as of yet has failed to nail down a place in OZ or over here for the last 2 years with us.
I agree he has shown a few sparks of potential but so far Mac has shown he doesn't really fancy him when the big games come round and i see nothing much to suggest he will do anything of note for us above being the typical journeyman Aussie. When you think we have this guy and let Ali go to Wakefield who is still doing the business a few years on.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"Achurch is 26 now and as of yet has failed to nail down a place in OZ or over here for the last 2 years with us.
I agree he has shown a few sparks of potential but so far Mac has shown he doesn't really fancy him when the big games come round and i see nothing much to suggest he will do anything of note for us above being the typical journeyman Aussie. When you think we have this guy and let Ali go to Wakefield who is still doing the business a few years on.'"
Agree would rather have Ali back anytime
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| Perhaps Achurch was a means by which GH could manage the salary cap more efficiently than with Ali.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Agree would rather have Ali back anytime'"
Achurch and Weller failed to fill his boots and Ali is still a better player than those 2 now.
He's still doing a job and has been rewarded at Wakie with a 2 year deal.
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| Clarkson looks redundant at Leeds, he'll be moved on I presume. He was struggling to get a sniff anyway but the emergence of Walters makes Clarkson look irrelevant.
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