I count 3 props and 1 second row



You can't throw a back on the bench "just in case"! That's a waste of a spot totally!

I can imagine Mac will think the same way. Certain players always seem to get that treatment whereas other constant none performers retain their spot. Not hard to see where the frustration creeps in.

In Clarksons case, he started the season well and was rewarded with a 10 minute cameo off the bench late on in the WCC. Nice.

I thought he ended last season well H but if we are (rightly)dropping Clarkson on form Kirke should be ditched aswell imo and certainly before Mcshane.

Can't you understand why? Clarkson is a great ball runner and catches out tired defenders. Macs thinking was probably that the game needed size with it being an all out war at times. I'm sure he didn't go into the game planning to give him 10 mins. Circumstances change though and sometimes it happens. I don't buy into this "favourites" bull-crap. He sees them every day in training, we don't.

Kirkes been good this year. If you're going on last week, didn't he go off after 7 or 8 mins injured? You can't say that's a reason to be dropped.

Danny Mags is on SSN at the moment.

If he doesn't have a "favourites" section and its BS H why then is it only certain players get dropped after losses or poor TEAM performances??
Also re-Kirke not just last week he was poor v Cas and Ordinary at ST's whilst not been a "stand out" in any other game imo and yet we see the same old faces dropped the same with Burrow at times how come he's starting every week irrespective of performance?
Just to add re-Burrow i know how good he is and what games he's won M.O.M and how many rings he's got etc etc i'm talking current form (although he had a decent 2nd half v ST's).
I've no problems with Clarkson getting the drop this week but there were others that deserve it before Mcshane imo.

Kirke adds more defensive stability to the team though. McShane is an awful defender and that was the reason he was put out on loan in the 1st place. Ball on hand he's ok, but I cringe when someone attacks him near our line. Too many people underestimate how important defence is, but IMO if you are a turnstile, no matter how good you are with ball in hand, you should not be playing SL. (See Kevin Penny)

I like that quote

The game was edging away long before Clarkson appeared. I'd have introduced him much sooner. We could have done with the fresh legs.

Second guessing how Mac thinks - good luck.

Noooo, he's Kirke and is therefore rubbish, no matter what he does in games.

Unlike say Clarkson, or JJB who can turn in equally mediocre performances without fear of ever having fans get on their backs about it.

And seriously, why is Burrow getting picked over McShane? How about because one can defend and offers you moments that will win you tight, important games through sheer individual brilliance and the other is Paul McShane?

It's nothing to do with coaches playing "favourites" and everything to do with picking your best available 17 to win you the next game.

As far as coaches go in the modern era, I put Mac 3rd behind Smith and Murray at the top (I would have loved to have seen what Murray could have done with our 2004-2008 teams.

He's a massive improvement on McClennan anyway. At least we get a game plan now and the players look like they have been coached. Does it always go right? No! But we are more structured now than we ever have been, even under Smith and the last 2 years have shown that he is a very capable coach. Until we look average for more than a game or 2 at a time, I have no complaints with his judgement.

You statement is probably right there. However, in each game this season so far bar one, McShane when coming on has exceeded Burrow's performance.

You're entitled to your opinion on their respective performances.

I will say that I haven't seen McShane produce anything like the half break that created Hall's try at Saints, or Burrow get walked through like McShane did for Bromwich's try in the WCC.

Exactly. You just said what I have been trying to say for an hour, in 1 post

Not dissgreeing, but there is more to a game than 20 seconds.

I have not see McShane bomb possession like Burrow did at Castleford or in the WCC.

McShane would have to first put himself in a position like that to bomb the opportunity

Haven't seen Burrow defending the ruck in order to get walked through.

Personally, I think the quality of RL we played under McClennan was far better than what we have now. By 2010 it was time for a change but the quality on show in the McClennan era I think was way ahead of what we've seen under McDermott so far.

Ag-H.
Has Burrow never missed a tackle a then??
With regards the Melbourne try what about Achurch then Watkins and a scrambling Kirke??
All the above were involved in missing Bromwich for his try.
Also Jjb and Clarkson and 99% of the team have been criticised on individual performances in the past and present.
Also re-Burrow he's clearly been out-played in games this year at 9 by Mcshane including last week so why is he not on the bench or undroppable then?
You all talk as though Mcshane is Andy Hay in the defence but he's no worse than many others in the team and i always have the opinion you should be dropped for either poor form or rotation and neither make sense if Mcshane misses this match.
Not only that he offers back up if we lose a BR and Sinfield has to revert to 13 with Mags at 6 and RB at 7.
So what about picking yer best 17 on form instead of reputation?
Sometimes you lot would think some are suggesting selling the team and starting agian!!
What has kirke done thus far that's been so good to make him undroppable??
I agree Clarkson should be dropped no problem with it at all and i have mentioned Jjb's form or lack of it in the past is it such a bad thing to mention it and suggest something different?

McShane makes glaring misses on a weekly basis and has done since he first came into the team. Achurch was as much at blame for the try too. I disagree with Watkins getting pulled into it though. Not many full backs would have stopped an already rampaging guy his size. If he goes low, Bromich scores. If he goes high, 9/10 Bromich scores.

McShane has made 102 tackles this season and missed 2. Burrow has made 35 and also missed 2. I know they defend different areas of the field but McShane's defense has improve 10 fold since he first came into the team.

Completely agree CS.

Really?

I noted his defence being questionable a few years ago, but he's worked hard on that part of the game. Especially over last 2 years.

This reminds me of when Burgess was absolutely storming and really was our best prop at the time he was going. There were still certain posters on here declaring that he couldn't hold the ball and his marker defence was bad, despite the stats proving compeltely the oppossite over the the previous 18 months. Not that stats were needed, as it was clear to see with your own eyes. But once certain posters form an opinion (which was made two years prior), that's it for them.