Surely you can't really have meant to use the word enjoyable?

Memorable, absolutely if we win on saturday. Enjoyable achievement, absolutely if we win on saturday. But the whole season?

It's been our lowest scoring season for how many years? And worst defensive season for how many years? That is not something that would usually be associated with enjoyable.

No No Gareth!

We are mediocre



I'm just orft for a trawl around the market for some sackcloth and a bucket of ashes....

This.

Gareth, I don't mean that I don't want to win. I do. I'd love to win. And I'd be proud of us for winning. But I would also be embarrassed by the manor in which we won. We're always going to disagree on this, and that's fine. But this entire season we've played like Champions for ONE match. To win it, you'd expect we'd have to make that two. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy being Champions. I would. But I find that embarrassing. I'm sure there are other who agree with me. Just like I'm also sure there are plenty more that don't.

I know the system allows a win from 5th, and that we can only play the game that's put in front of us. But that doesn't make it right. If we'd been there or thereabouts all season, then fine. I don't have a problem with people winning from 2nd, or 3rd etc. But for a team (us!) to be so far out of contention when looking at the best teams all year to then be called Champions after winning two matches, is embarrassing, and whilst I would enjoy being Champions again, and it would be an achievement, I certainly wouldn't be bragging about it or taunting Warrington/Wigan/Saints fans with our achievements.

But we are mediocre?!

All that crap we've been giving Wigan fans all year about letting the success go to their heads and they won the title!!! We've beaten Warrington away and all of a sudden everybody has forgotten how God awful we've been ALL YEAR.

The difference is that you are speaking like a coach and not a fan. A fan wants to see us play well and win.

I have spent most of this season coming away from HQ very disappointed. Not even because of the results but becuase of how badly we have performed. To a degree I can except losing if we at elast player well but were just out played.

As Ive said on another thread, the record books will only care about whether we win or not on Saturday, but as a fan there is much to it then just that, at least there is for me.

Yes. Thank you. Me too.

It's not that I don't want to win, it's just there's more to it than that. Whatever the record books say, or is printed on Sunday morning... it is NOT just about Saturday for me.

If you told me that we'd win the Grand Final every year for the next 5 years, but for the 27 rounds play like we have done this year I wouldn't think... "Whoooo! Champions 5 years in a row!!!". I'd rather play well, enjoy the season, and lose in a good match to a good side in the semis (exactly like Warrington & Wigan have done this year!), than win the GF from 5th after a poor season every year.

I can't articulate how much I disagree with this.

If the team complete the job on saturday evening it will be one of my most triumphant moments supporting the club. Sure some of the thrashings and poor performances were hard to endure, but that's what makes this late run so unexpected and so enjoyable.

I can't think of a bigger anti climax, or anything more dissapointing than being awesome for 27 rounds only to fall at the last hurdle. Imagine in 2004 losing that final eliminator game against wigan and going home empty handed?

Sport is about WINNING. That's what history remembers. history won't remember we copped a thrashing from catalns mid way through the season.

But if we win on saturday, what history will remember is that We claimed our 5th super league title, from 5th place in the table.

It will be one of our finest hours. The roller coaster ride of this season has been awesome.

I don't care what "history" remembers. I care what I remember. I remember a 2,000 mile round trip to watch that dross.

I'm sure to the people that have taken a mild interest, attended the odd games, watched a few on TV, etc would perhaps be happy with just winning the Grand Final.

If this whole season was £31 and 80 minutes, then fine. Let's all celebrate together. But it's not. It's thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours. And I want to enjoy that time and money. Not just the last two matches of it.

Can't beleive what ive read from you... you really would rather win [unothing[/u but play well most weeks than be inconsistant and become champions???





I'm sorry but this is what the playoffs are all about at the end of the day. Superleague will hopefully get to a stage where no one really hammers teams every week, and there's some unpredictability to it week in week out.

Leeds have been poor at time this season by our recent standards and there are issues re recruitment for next season at the moment, but if we win on saturday at the end of the day it would be an incredible acheivement and we all should be proud, in fact we should be proud that we've got to the GF. Playoffs are about form, and playing well when it counts.... something we are masters of.

There two very different schools of thought. I understand that. And we're probably never going to agree.

It's like this....

You book a 3 week holiday. It costs you thousands. It's awful. The hotel is sub-standard and crawling with bugs, there's no food that you like, you pick up a stomach bug, spend the whole time throwing up. Nobody speaks English, your laptop is stolen from your room, you get mugged and spending money is taken, the bar in the hotel closes at 7 every night, there's nothing to see or do or enjoy. Basically, you have a really really really crap time for 19 days.

On the 20th day, your complaints to the holiday company kick in, and you're transferred to a 7* hotel for the last two nights. You're totally and utterly pampered and spoiled, free food, free drink, and flown home first class.

Is that:
The best holiday of your life?
The worst holiday of your life?
Bit of both?

Would you do the 19 nights of hell again to enjoy the 2 nights pampering and free food/drink?

I suspect that some would, and some wouldn't. And it's just going to be one of those things that people don't agree on.

If we win Ill be over the moon because, as you say, we did it from 5th.

Regardless of the result on Saturday I would never call this season 'awesome'.

More fool you.....

Have you not yet learned it is only
worth paying to watch Leeds at the
"business end" of the season.





Life's a bitch.

Come on Leeds. CHAMPIONS ( maybe )
Them's the rules

Is the team and performance your only source of enjoyment from sport?

Because you will always have to endure poor performances and losses, that's sport. Sometimes you will have it more than others because it goes in cycles.

For me the main source of enjoyment is a nice night/day out, a few beers, spending time with friends/family and just the game of rugby league itself.

And some of my favourite matches to watch are somtimes when leeds are a bit, well, mediocre. E.g. I got alot more excitment and enjoyment out of leeds comeback and late wins against wakefield and bradford in the last 2 MM's than i would a 50/60 point thrashing (unless it's against a wigan or a st helens).

I'm afraid I judge sporting events rather differently to my holidays. I like my holidays to be relaxing as well as fun. Sport is rubbish if it's really relaxing.

For me, trials and tribulations in sport are the sort of thing that makes any eventual triumph even sweeter. Its like a pint of ale that you feel like you've worked hard for (better analogy).

To further scotch your holiday analogy, I wouldn't say the aim of my holiday is the final 2 days, for which the preceding days are preparation. I would however say that the play-offs are the ultimate aim of a Super League season.

Incidentally, I had a holiday in Nepal a few years ago where few people spoke English (most in the mountains don't even speak Nepali), the accomodation was tin huts if you were lucky and I wouldn't exactly describe the food as top notch (well, not on the trails, it was awesome in Kathmandu). Still the best holiday I've ever had (probably), so your analogy extra doesn't work for me.

I agree with some of that, and take your points on board. I know what you mean, about the games in which we play poorly can often be more of a contest as it lets the likes of Wakefield in with more of a fighting chance.

The answer to your question is, no. The team's performance isn't my only source of enjoyment from the sport. But it is a pretty big one. Some of what we've had to watch this year hasn't been slightly sub-standard, but coming back for a dramatic win. It's been absolutely awful, and at times, embarrassing. If we just didn't play that well, etc etc I'd get on with it.

But some of the performances have left me leaving the ground embarrassed and angry. You can't enjoy that. Or at least I can't.

To be honest, I'm not disagreeing with you (or anyone for that matter!). I can totally see all your points. But as I've said in my "Holiday" analogy, it's just two very different ways of thinking that are never going to agree with one another.

I suspect I'm one of the few on here that feel this way. If not the only one.

I imagine that a hammering at the hands of Saints on Saturday would pick me up a few more subscribers to the theory.

Given that I've been to nearly every match, I like to remember the season as a whole. Sorry if I'm not jumping through hoops that we've just beaten Warrington.

I don't think you are mate. I don't believe any of these posters above could look you in the eye truthfully and say what they are saying, If Leeds lost on Saturday.

People pay to be entertained, if they are not paying for that, then they have more money than sense.

We win on Saturday, and it has been an absolute memborable season for all to enjoy in. I don't think you worded your posts earlier to that effect, which may have brought he dissagreement. But there has been some attrocious rugby played this year, and realy poor quality matches seen at Headingley. So anybody who says they enjoyed those matches, I'm sorry, but IMO they are lying.

Thank you pal.

Sounds to me you should change and support Hudds. They get that every year as standard. Decent season and crumble in the play offs.

Seriously though. For me some of the performances early season were poor and was disappointing, but for me that is sport taking the good stuff with the bad. For me the bad makes the good games more enjoyable.
I see the season as qualifying for the playoffs, and cannot agree. I would not be embarrassed to win from 5th. Finishing top two is a massive advantage just look at where most of the finalist of last 10yrs have come from.

It has been disappointing in parts this season but winning is important and I would not be embarrassed to win it from 5th. I am quite proud that they have reached a final from that spot.

You need to re-read a few of my other posts mate. I'm not being funny or argumentative, but you've genuinely missed the point a bit and I've gone into more detail in other posts.

Re read them, and I do take the points, but my main disagreement is you did say that would be embarrassed if we won, which I wouldn't.

It's Sport.

Drama, unexpected turns of events, defying the odds, strength in adversity and even sometimes the downright unfairness of the result are what gives sport its enduring appeal.

Whilst the first 22 weeks or so of the season were generally disappointing, the last 4 or 5 (and the CC final as well tbh) have given me, as a Rhinos fan, more than enough reason to feel justified in following my team with a passion.

Which is surely why people bother with it?

I don't think people pay to watch sport for "entertainment" at all to be honest.

Sport is a tribal thing. It's why fans of teams that are permanently in the doldrums turn out week in week out knowing that their team has no chance. It's about far, far more than entertainment.

My post was carefully worded. I said if we win it will be the most enjoyable season I've had to [iendure[/i.

I watch Leeds because I have a tribal affinity to the club. It's my club. It's the club I was brought up watching. I can watch great games of rugby as a neutral involving other clubs but it doesn't feel the same. So, if my club becomes champions I will enjoy that a great deal. I will also enjoy it more than many previous titles because it will have been achieved in the most dramatic of fashions with the team and the coach overcoming a great deal of adversity.

Which leads me to the other element of sports and, perhaps the most important. My wife won't believe this but Sport is the greatest drama on TV and Leeds have been a drama this season. Here's a much better analogy than remarkable rhinos silly "holiday" analogy. We're like Rocky. Everyone loves Rocky right? Nobody rooted for Appollo Creed (until Rocky III that is). But Rocky was a bum. Losing fights. Average until he got his big shot and he took it.

This season has been like Rocky I and Rocky II all rolled in. The Challenge Cup Final was the fight at the end of Rocky I which we controversially lost. The Grand Final will be the fight at the end of Rocky II if we win. All together now, Adrian! Adrian!

Sport is drama. This has been a dramatic season and there's a potentially dramatic finish around the corner. Who on earth could say that haven't enjoyed that? If this doesn't get the hairs on the back of your neck arisen and your juices flowing then I think you're following the wrong sport.

Agree with G1 great post and summed up better than I could have done

I think that's a very good post Gareth.

Still think personally, that nobody will use the word enjoyable for this season if we lose Saturday. But as I have posted previously, we win and it is the most memorable for me since watching Leeds.