Leeds cannot compete because they have so much of the cap tied up in the core e.g. Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire/JJB etc. all on long term contracts

Forgot Ali but re-Buderus i think he's here next year aswell.

Well, to be fair, the reason our young halves are going so well is thanks mainly to James Roby (who has taken on the role of leading the team around the park) and Paul Wellens (who has been given the task of third halfback by Simmons) as well as a supportive team environment. If they'd been thrown in without that support, things may have been much worse. They also played together in the youth leagues, so that's a bonus. If you remember our situation last season when we had Moore and Wilkin in the halves, you can probably appreciate our deep joy at having our present arrangement in place even though it is probably proving to be a lot of extra work for some of our senior players!


That will no doubt have come into it, but he will be a starting halfback when he arrives next season, that has been made clear in press statements. Whether at stand off or scrum half will probably depend on whether Leon Pryce (a) can ever get his groin to stick back together, and (b) re-signs with the club.


Whereas ours is in the halves. If he can settle in then I think he will be an asset, and our young guys will have had a large chunk of this season to gain extremely valuable experience that will hopefully turn them into our first choice halfback pairing in the future.

Really?

If they were all fit, Leeds would be lining up with Webb, Delaney, Cross, Buderus, Leuluai, Hauraki and Lauitiiti in their matchday 17 every week leaving just 10 places to be filled by home-grown players.

Castleford have five overseas players in their first team squad (Youngquest, McGoldrick, Chase, Isa and Widders). Huddersfield have just four (O'Donnell, Fa'alogo, Faiumu and Simpson). Which of those three clubs is offering the best opportunity to young British players, other than by reason of its overseas contingent being frequently crocked?

And Wigan have exactly the same thing, along with Saints. Why would they then be able to compete more?

No, I don't agree with all that. If you are a top player Leeds, along with Wigan and Saints are the clubs you would be aspiring to reach for in your career. If you were an Aussie, and expressed a desire to play in Super League, those very same clubs are the ones you would hope would come calling.

Now if you are talking a specific different argument where if you were a 16 year old scrum half who was ready for first team, then I can see your point. But this discussion started with someone like Arundel, who is a quality centre who has made it now, and the fact that Leeds require a quality centre to replace the aged Senior.

What about the long term deals Morely ,Westwood ,Harrison,J.Monahagn at Wire ,Brown ,Robinson ,O'Donnell ,Brough at Giants ,Tompkins bros ,Leuleui,Lima at the Pies and at Saints Lomax ,LMS ,Shenton ,Perry ,Roby etc etc it's the same at most clubs in the league they tie down the core of their squads.
As for not wanting to play in a team that contains Sinfield ,Mcguire ,Bailey etc etc that's ridiculous what did Hardaker say when he signed? or the statements made by Hall ,Bjb and Watkins when signing new long tem deals.
We can compete with ANY club in this league admitedly we have a strict wage structure which has cost us Atkins but lets be honest should we break the bank for him when much better others have signed on tose arrangements?

What about the players they've signed??
Gilmour ,Brough ,Brown ,Ferguson for Giants ,Mathers ,Jones ,Fozzard ,Ferres etc etc for Cas are all signed from outside the club Leeds have shown that if your good enough you'll get picked and retained and plus with teh new recruitment many of the players listed won't even be here.

Both Wigan and Saints are about 3/4 years behind in core age of their squad - Wigan have 3/4 Saints similar Leeds have 8/9 big difference what Saints and Wigan have are higher paid overseas on short term contracts. That can easily be moved along - can't see Carmont playing as long as Senior, can't see Roberts being around as long as Hall etc

Sal surely a young player who had his choice of clubs would consider playing with the likes of Sinfield and Mcguire as a "bonus" rather than a hinderance and as for the 3/4yrs down the line the squad would naturally evolve and whilst there are players in this squad that have had 1 or 2 yrs too long on their deals it shows that he club are willing to support success does it not?

What "new recruitment" is that then? I'll believe it when I see it thanks, not when somebody on an internet message board tells me it's going to happen.

What about the players those other clubs have signed? If signing players from other clubs is evidence that you're not committed to developing your own youth then what about Leeds signing Amor, Coady, Hardaker, Kirke, Peacock and Pitts?

There's certainly one and indeed probably two names on that list you've given I would have loved to have at Leeds had we not invested so much in antipodean mediocrity like Cross, Lauitiiiti and Hauraki.

Hardaker was a 16 year old who was grateful to sign for any pro club and what else is he likely to say?

My point was about a talented youngster looking to the future - is he going to want to play for team with the 8/10 players that are struggling to compete now in 3/4 years time - no way.

Unless you see a significant break up of the core this team with stagnate and go backwards. Too many players are "Owed" a place to be a truly competitive side long term.

What it says is the club isn't ruthless enough to despose of players who are not upto scratch - so as a young player are you going to get a spot before Burrow - no chance. It might be great to play in a team with Sinfield and McGuire in 3/4 years time - provided you don't have ambitions to win anything!!

Ok, I agree with the argument you are making now. It wasn't just a general statement then.

I still don't agree with Andy's though that Leeds isn't any more attractive a proposition for players than other clubs.

IMO I can see us signing a second rower and a prop from Aus if we cant get a good one from UK -

Brent Webb - Ben Jones Bishop
Keith Senior - Kallum Watkins
Kylie Leuluai - Ben Cross whilst Brad Singleton matures
Jamie Peacock - Stay for another year to help mature Brad Singleton - Luke Ambler to replace him
Ali Lauitiiti - Chris Clarkson
Ryan Bailey - Stay
Ian Kirke - Luke Ambler
Luke Burgess - Brad Singleton for now
Callum Casey - ?

if that went like that we would be with:

1. Ben Jones-Bishop
2. Zak Hardaker
3. Lee Smith
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Danny Mcguire
7. Rob Burrow
8. Ben Cross
9. Danny Buderus
10. Jamie Peacock
11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan
12. Carl Ablett
13. Kevin Sinfield
14. Brett Delaney
15. Luke Ambler
16. Ryan Bailey
17. Weller Hauraki
18. Chris Clarkson
19. ?
20. ?
21. Paul McShane
22. Brad Singleton
23. Jay Pitts
24. Jared Stewart
25. Kyle Amor

Sal if we are looking at signing young players now for next season and beyond it's very unlikely they'll look at our squad and think that Sinfield and Mcguire will still be here 3/4 more years and we won't win jack so i'll go eleswhere.
This squad will go through changes not least this year and there's still pleny of youth ,potential and talent within it to be a very good prospect for any young player or otherwise to want to join.
It's also more likely they'll get plenty of chances to impress and game-time not least because of the evolution the squad will go through whereas the others you point out will have much more established 17/20 man squads.

Well we may as well give up then the way people are talking about this. If we are no longer able to compete with signings with the likes of Castleford then I would be extremely worried. I don't get how you can use the 'why would they sign with us when they could sign or Wigan' argument either, we need to try and sign them at any cost if we are to continue to be successful. Are people suggesting we should just avoid signing bigger players in the off chance another club wants to sign them aswell, in which case we should give up. We have a large chunk of cap space about to be made available to should be aiming to sign the best players available to us at a realistic cost. Like it or not we are on of the biggest clubs in this league, and players will want to play for us in-front of the bigger crowds etc. Lets aim for the top, and not just accept defeat without trying eh?

Wigan wont be doing any dealing for players until they have their new coach imo.

Which one then?

Yeah that is obvious, its just whether Michael Maguire wants him in squad over a player he admires, for instance, Liam Farrell?

Well I can't tell you without phoning round the players agents can I, however I was more hoping Gary is doing this rather than finding some NRL reject who wants to come over to finish his career.

I meant the two parts of your post that I highlighted


[iwe need to try and sign them at any cost[/i


[isign the best players available to us at a realistic cost[/i

Apologies, that was a mistake on my part, I was trying to get the point across that we should be paying top dollar to secure the best available british talent, but only to a certain extent. Not so much that it is ridiculous but if it means we have to pay more than others to secure them then so be it.

Yes, really.

Well done on naming Leeds quota players. Now name their English players. Now name English players playing at other clubs who have come through the ranks or played at Leeds.

Interesting this is a point that would throw up interesting reading I think.

This was always a very very valid argument Gareth and one that could be thrown up against any oppossition supporters going. We know for a fact that no other club in super league has produced as many super league players as Leeds that were playing in the academy's between 1999 and 2003, possibly earlier and longer than that.

But I wonder how many Leeds have produced since 2005 in comparison? I would bet that the players produced into superleague players between 1999 to end of 2004 (6 seasons) is more than double what we have done for the next 6 seasons (2005 to 2010).

I'm talking playing for any club here not just Leeds. Bet that is an interesting comparison.

To be honest I dont even have a problem with signing some players from the NRL but agree I dont want to see someone here just for the expreience and pension top up.

Agree dont see any reson why a young british player would not want to come to leeds. Yes there are other big clubs also vieing for the same signiture but doesnt mean we cannot compete.