We were lucky to have Diskin in 09 when Buderus went down with a broken leg and Diskin got to play the lions share each game we didn't lose another game. Diskin had a fine game in the 09 final. Diskin played a full role in all of our wins and it's what get my goat the most about our fans that they would be so dismissive of his achievements and yet hero worship someone who has achieved nothing of note with us yet.


I've stated above I have no interest in the NRL. To describe Buderus, after roughly 50 games, as one of the finest players in SL is worse than weak. It's hero worship at it's worst. Besides, I repeat, I did not compare Diskin and Buderus qualities. I, again, invite you to re-read what I wrote.

Good.

So having employed your reading skills you decided to respond to a point I wasn't making in this thread but to a point you recall me making in many previous threads. I see. Perhaps reading isn't the issue. Comprehension?

I'd have thought that would be fairly obvious. This isn't tennis you know. We're not paying to watch Buderus skills. We're paying to watch Leeds RLFC. Until or unless Buderus has contributed as much as Diskin then it's not rocket science to say he hasn't contributed as much as Diskin. DD'urgh! That is NOT comparing individual player's abilities.
This is his third season. I believe he is contracted for next year as well. OK, I'll scale it back a bit. He could help us get 25% of the amount of titles Diskin has and I'll start to worship him as much as everyone else.
Which point? The point I was actually making in this thread or the point from previous historical posts I apparently made you now say you were answering? Have you and Gotcha swapped login details because he's making a lot of sense recently and you seem to be arguing with shadows (no offence Gotcha).

Oo great - another thread that has descended into a Buderus vs Diskin ing contest.

Haven’t we gone through this many MANY times before?

Not this week. I think G1 has been away.

___________

Hasn't Buderus already got one SL winners ring for the 2009 season? The Grand Final is the culmination of a season long effort, which both Diskin and Buderus contributed to. While Buderus obviously didn't appear in the play-offs or Grand Final he was still instrumental in the season long team effort to get there.

Last week and last night Buderus has finally been allowed to show his true worth. A classic case of 'mis-management' from those in charge of team recruitment and selection at Headingley. If they wanted to run a two hooker system at Leeds they signed the wrong one in Buderus. Even two year olds eventually realise you can't put a square peg in a round hole no matter what you hit it with.

Think I'll email Sky and ask them if Stevo and Wiggy could cut back on the fulsome praise of Buderus and Delaney, as it's simply providing opportunities for cruel taunting of those who are a little bit slow in appreciating what an individual can contribute to a 17 man squad......

Keep wriggling this is funny.



To quote Blackadder "you twist and turn like a twisty turny thing..."

Oh and I'm sure Gotcha will be over the moon about your damning of him with faint praise.

Is this the same Gotcha who believes the RFL bailed-out Crusaders of North Wales (LOL) bring so much to the SL table due to the possibility of a film being made about Gareth Thomas negatively depicting RL supporters as boorish homophobes, which will then be utilised by insightful RL marketing people at all clubs in order to generate new support?

I prefer "This Sporting Life" and the backdrop of a proper foundation club as a commentary on RL.

Not at all. What I wrote was plain to see. You're the one who, by his own admission, when I pointed out you'd misinterpreted what I put, said that you were responding to a point you thought I'd made in some historical posts and not responding to the point I'd made earlier in the thread.

Shall I quote my sentence and your response again?

This Sporting Life is certainly more "Grass Roots" so I can understand why you particularly would gravitate towards it. For your reference, I made no comment on the Gareth Thomas film as TBH I don't really see it having much of an impact, positive or negative, worth talking about.

My point about Gotcha, was that he and G1 have not really been best friends on here previously with G1 making numerous attempts to ridicule Gotcha, so for G1 to praise his contributions now must be quite "overwhelming" for Gotcha (who I suspect isn't in the slightest interested).

Why was there a need to put three full stops on the end of your final sentence, other than to highlight that Buderus can (in your eyes) not match the achievements of Diskin? Were you getting "wet pantied" whilst typing it? If you had only put the one full stop your point would be relevant but you didn't and therefore your "true" meaning is exposed.

You have tried to make the link between how Buderus can not be considered to be an equal of Diskin until he has the same number of Championship wins under his belt for Leeds, but that "equation" is simply untrue as the Kirke / Jones analogy proves, and now you are trying to wriggle out of it.

Put the spade down and stop digging...

err, guys... Diskin doesn't play for the Rhinos anymore. I would hope that all Leeds fans wholeheartedly support our first choice hooker throughout the season.

Sure we will....the point is that due to mis-management we have wasted at least a year (I'm being kind) of his talents persisting in the two hooker failure.
I hasten to add this was not Diskin's fault....but the enlightened on here could see the folly of the policy.

The same mis-management has also deprived us of at least one year of a very talented TWENTY TWO year old exciting back.....(and the loss of a classic young English specialist winger to the Salford Reds).

It has further deprived us of at least half a season of a natural second rower playing centre...again the more enlightened could see the folly.

The club continues to make the same mistake with Hardaker and Ambler.

Why don't you just coach the team and spare us all another wasted season.

Nah....it's much more fun to moan and lament the failings of others.

I have done. All I said was that I hoped that he could emulate the successes Diskin enjoyed. Seems that even saying that will raise the shackles of the Buderus' worshipers.

Try focusing on the words that were written rather than the punctuation at the end of the paragraph and we'll be better able to discuss what was written rather than what you think was written, or what you now say was written some time ago



Let me help. I'll clear things up. When I said "We had been hugely successful with Diskin and I hope we are as successful with Buderus. He only has 4 championships to get there..."

What I meant was "We had been hugely successful with Diskin and I hope we are as successful with Buderus. He only has 4 championships to get there"

Does it make it any clearer without the extra full stops? No comparison of the players individual abilities there whatsoever. Just an expression of a hope that Buderus can help us achieve what Diskin did.


You used three full stops. Does that mean you think Diskin is a better hooker than Buderus?

Shackles. That made me smile.

If I had to highlight three from a great team display it would be:

1 - Kylie
2 - Buderus
3 - Sinfield

What utter bull$hit.

It is due to this management that we are arguably the best run club in SL, and the most successful on the field over the last 7 years.

Yes, Diskin and Buderus didn't work. Having said that we were only trying to do what every other club was doing with 2 hookers. Should we have signed Buderus? maybe not, but if helps us to two more titles in the next two years I daresay opinion on that will change.

Are you seriously suggesting it was a mistake to let BJB go to Harlequins? Compare his performances on the wing in 2009 and that of last week plus how comforatble he looked at fullback at Hull and that should be enough to show what a great decision it was by the club. He would not have gained the same exposure to first team rugby at Leeds.

Broughton. Again, are you serious? What makes you think we should have kept him? Should we also have kept Peter Fox who's had a decent run since leaving Leeds. Perhaps we could play them on the 4th and 5th wing alongside Hall, Smith and BJB. After all so many wingers is a much better use of the cap than 2 hookers.

Who would you have played at centre throughout last year? I agree Delaney looked for all the world a perfect fit for 2nd row but he also did a decent job for us at right centre all year. Now I'm unsure if you're criticising Bluey or hetherington, or both???

As for Ambler and Hardaker - on another thread I have posted my hypothetical Grand Final team. There are at least 7 players outside that 17 who would be in a lot of SL sides. This shows what depth we have. I don't think either of the above would be close to the 19 man squad if everyone was fit. Therefore they are gaining useful experience rather than playing in a poor under 20s competition at Leeds. It makes perfect sense.

Bet you worship god and david cameron in the same way as the hierarchy at the rhinos ... N ' est ce pas ?

Just read back your own post to see how silly you are.

Sticking a French phrase in your post doesn't make your opinion superior. I stand by everything I said but especially the bits about jones bishop and the two loanees this year. What would they have possibly gained from playing in our under 20s every week?

Was it not you who suggested a move for Lee smith to stand off??? It seems the silly posts are all coming from the same place

Has anyone ever seen GOD and GH in the same room?

Good post there Andy!
There are always consequences from any decision, and occasionally one may come back and bite you on the ass. Broughton may be a case in point, but as Norwich would say C'est la Vie.

Ok I've got nothing better to do at the moment...so flippancy aside (surely none of us should take this too seriously after all) I will endeavour to debate as if this is a critical matter.

In the commercial world (which Leeds RL is part of) before making a [imajor[/i investment (Buderus) you ensure proper research is carried out first to ensure it complements your assets (specifically Diskin).
The major issue was the persistence in trying to implement a policy that clearly - some considerable time ago - was not going to be the most productive use of the new superior asset.

You state BJB "would not have gained the same exposure to first team rugby at Leeds"...why not ? Who are you saying was immune to de-selection ? The guy is now TWENTY TWO....he was not some young kid vulnerable to too early a confidence shattering baptism. The club should have had more faith in him and let somebody else go (Donald perhaps).

Ref Peter Fox I did state "recent years"...I guess it depends how you define 'recent' ?

Broughton I repeat is a specialist winger...so of Hall, Smith (a [inon-specialist[/i winger who had left to join Wasps RU !! ) and BJB (another [inon-specialist[/i winger who you have already stated you were happy to see shipped out to Harlequins !!) I would suggest there was NOT a plethora of wingers at the club and I would have, yes, thus retained his services

The question then about Delaney becomes irrelevant. With Broughton and BJB retained there would have been no need to secure the services of an average-at-best Aussie centre.

As for last season there were other slightly less bad options such as Smith (who has better pace and elusiveness) or even Ablett (who can at least look to draw his man and pass to his outside team-mate) at centre. The folly in persisting with a hugely capable second rower at centre was another faux pas !! ..Please excuse my love of French phases.

You state neither Hardaker nor Ambler "would be close to the 19 man squad if everyone was fit". Again..why not ? If they are good enough they should be....and I believe that they are good enough. Kirke had a good game against Hull FC but Ambler IMO is the better player to have retained. Senior should have made way for Hardaker and the other 'young uns' if there are luxuries we cannot afford to keep under the cap.

As for suggesting Smith at stand off ....I have remarked previously he reminds me of Neil Hague who had a similar versatility without ever commanding a regular spot. I still say one day you will see him paying there. I might be wrong....none of us are infallible....INCLUDING the Leeds Rhinos' heirarchy !!!!

The point here is nobody at Leeds Rhinos does anything to deliberately harm the club. Every decision is a judgement call and like every other business some calls will be wrong.

If you employ someone to do a job in a senior position you cannot then micro-manage them. McClennan was employed as coach and he thought the team needed rotating nines, Hetherington had to back that decision and went out and found the best he could. It didn't work but unless you give it go you will never know.

Let's face it if a player of the quality of Buderus come available you would definitely be interested - anyone who thinks he cannot enhance a team is wrong in my opinion. It was the right call to get him and he has shown since he has been here what a top player he is.

Gareth doesn't like quality players with lots of natural ability especially Aussies, he prefers local lads who work hard to maximise their abilities even at much lower levels - perhaps mirroring his own playing experiences. As fans we seldom get to see the very top Aussies on a weekly basis and Gareth can see although he will never admit it the gulf in ability between these two players. Diskin was very fortunate that he played in side that had the likes of Webb, Sinfield, McGuire, Peacock. Those players made the difference not Diskin - the side won the last three titles inspite of not because of Matt Diskin's involvement. Diskin was like Kirke, Kylie, Donald lucky to be surrounded by a few outstanding players. McClennan had realised the position needed a boost and brought Buderus in good move. If Buderus had stayed fit in year one Diskin would have gone a year ago.

On Delanney he was a centre in the most intense competition in RL he was never considered a back row forward. The reason he is played in the back row is the need to fit Watkins in due to general lack of pace in the side, the need for a faster attacking option and the insistence on play Senior . Delanney would play centre in virtually every other SL side.

McClennan had decided that Donald and Hall were his wingers and Webb his FB with Watkins as the back up so BJB was unlikely to get much game time so they loaned him out so he could play at a higher level every week - right decision. Having done that it would have been morally unfair to have brought him back when the injuries hit. The same has happened to Ambler - McDermott sees Kylie, Cross etc as his props so Ambler's opportunities will be limited. Broughton was no brainer, simply not good enough.

On Zac Hardaker it is very early and he is only 18/19. Under Powell he will learn a lot so should be a positive once again.

Hetherington is nobody's fool - he gets a lot more right than he ever gets wrong IMO

God is an invisible creation of man and has no apparent father.......so might be irreverently called something else. I am sure we would not label GH with the same lack of respect.

He's not done a bad job...despite his all expenses paid holidays down under disguised as useless recruitment drives: Buderus for Ellis; shipping out BJB to recruit Delaney and the latest..... shipping out Ambler to recruit Cross. Hmmmm.

Thank you for the dose of reality compared to the others who indulge in long and continuing flights of fancy and rounds of Top Trumps where public opinion voting systems would apparently pick the team each week - and while at the same time complaining about individual "star" signings the same people are clamouring for signatures on contracts throughout the winter in a series of "Why haven't we signed everyone available" type of post.