You've done an awful lot of thinking on this. At least that's what I think, do you think I'm correct?

Seems to be producing results, both Wales and non-heartlands English www.midlandsrugbyleague.co.uk/ar ... gland.html Matt Meek, Harlequins U18 & U20 loose forward, and Wales player here, is a Northampton RL product.

Seems to be producing results, both Wales and non-heartlands English www.midlandsrugbyleague.co.uk/ar ... gland.html Matt Meek, Harlequins U18 & U20 loose forward, and Wales player here, is a Northampton RL product.

If we gave up trying to expand the game, then it's only a matter of time until Full Time Pro RL in the UK is dead. What we do need to do is take a mid to long term view (5-20 years) and plan accordingly.

The very fact that RL is played in South Wales and the Midlands now is testimony to the fact that we have a very exciting sport to both watch and play. It would be one hell of a shame to just pack up and go home....

I agree with both Richie & Batley. Rugby outside of the heartlands is in a very good state, with great setups in Coventry, Northampton, Birmingham and Nottingham. Ok, so none of these would be ready for SL in the next 5 years, but clubs putting out 3 mens teams on a weekend is a pretty decent state of affairs.

Having said that, some of the above clubs could do a hell of a lot with the amount of money undoubtedly spend on Crusaders

I’m not disputing the state of none heartlands RL or that Clubs in none traditional areas can’t offer a valid contribution to the sport – my beef is with the way the RFL have tried to hot house a Super League club in the most unlikely place in the whole country.

It’s like they took a poll and asked “where in the UK is the daftest place start a Super League Club” and some joker answered “South Wales” – “perfect” thought the senile old farts at Red Hall “…and to make it even more ridiculous we’ll base the club in a shi[size=100t[/sizehole of a town at a RU ground, and a really shabby one at that”

The Welsh experiment has failed, dramatically. I honestly believed that Celtic would fade into obscurity and end up being a distant memory, only being brought into conversation when validating the RFL’s ineptness. But I was wrong, it has only taken a couple of years before the club self-imploded in full view of the watching world.

These crass “ideas” the RFL continually force our great sport to endure only serve to embarrass it.

You reckon South Wales, venue for Challenge Cup finals and Millenium Magic events over the last few years, birthplace of so many legends of the 13-a-side code, was "the most unlikely place in the whole country" to put a SL club?

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're way off the mark with that statement IMO.

Agreed. The idea that Rl could work in Wales is now what has caused the failure. its trying to run before they can walk that has

Yep. Would much rather try to work in an RU area (that doesn't have the public school boy issues associated with a few RU areas) than an area that seems interested only in soccer.

Apart from the strong tradition of RU you haven't really mentioned anything that doesn't apply to a large number of the heartland clubs.

My mistake guys - You're all right, the experiment to expand the sport in South Wales worked a treat didn't it?

My Bad.

Maybe the sample period on "did it work" is a little too short at 2 seasons. IMO you can't decide if "it works" in anything less than 10 years.

New Pro RL clubs are like any start up business, it takes years to get it working properly. Oh and most start up businesses don't lose their staff to injuries with anything like the regularity of a sports club.

So why was the club hurriedly moved out of South Wales after such a short period of time?

..and you're right a new club needs time to grow and mature before it starts "working properly", so why was a brand new club shoe-horned into the sports top level competition before it had time to establish itself?

Why? ... because it was a stupid idea dreamed up by idiots.

Well, there is a pro club there and a good amateur set up. What are you measuring it on, and why are you regarding it as an experiment?

Maybe you can tell me why the Crusaders had to move from the hotbed of Rugby League that is South Wales then?

With such a deep pool of talent to recruit from and with such a massive interest in the game I really don’t understand it but you seem to have an insight into these matters so please do enlighten me.

Dunno. There is a pro RL team in South Wales still though.

Can you tell me why Castleford and Wakefield are both looking to move out of their town centres? Why Wigan moved out of Wigan town centre? Why St Helens are moving to Widnes? etc?

Anyway, again, how are you measuring the success of RL in Wales, and why do you regard it as an experiment?

Seriously...???

You're comparing the move of, for example, Wakefield from Belle Vue to Stanley (distance 4 miles) to a move from Bridgend to Wrexham (distance 160)..????

FFS get real.

To answer your question I’d measure the success of a SL club by its success. Doesn't the fact the club is in administration means that it hasn’t been successful?

…and if wasn’t a deluded RFL experiment then what the fekk was it?

LS16 has a very valid point here IF it was working so well why relocate?
Plus they made the play-offs and are still in administration.
I think they should of stayed put in the championship for at least 3/4 years and establish the club where they originally planned to be based and the RFL did "push through" their application and have looked foolish ever since imo especially from a business and established club sense.
Whether or not RL is played in south Wales is irrellevant to the fact that the Crusaders failed to get established there and the club is currently in the brown and smelly despite making the play offs and relocating which points to foundations of a soggy kit-kat.

At last sense.

RL has been in South Wales for the past 100 years so why hasn’t it organically matured into a popular, reasonably attended sport?

Because it is considered a niche sport and has far too much competition in the way of RU.

As rhinoms points out, if the RFL really wanted to establish a SL presence in South Wales they should have tried to nurture the Championship club to a point where it could make the step up to SL and even then they’d have had an uphill struggle. But instead they hot-house a Championship club that was no way near ready for the top flight competition.

You could make a healthy sized omelette with the amount of egg currently dripping off the faces of the RFL right now.

The fact that it didn't evolve organically is one reason why it perhaps merited more of a push by the authorities. It's also worth asking how many new, successful, professional clubs have developed organically in the heartlands recently.

Comparing, yes. Not saying they are the same, no.


Which means the RL experiment has also been a failure in Widnes and Wakey and more then.


another club playing rugby league.

At last some sense.

Clubs just aren't going to evolve organically nowadays. They will always need a push from the league governing bodies.

Which is exactly what the RFL did and it failed on it's ar[size=100s[/sizee.

OK then lets take your statement one step further - "It's also worth asking how many new, successful, professional clubs have developed organically in the heartlands recently"

How many clubs have developed organically in the heartlands recently - none. If clubs are finding it hard to organically develop in an area where Rugby League has its highest level of support then why the Hell did the RFL think it would be successful in South Wales?

This doesn't even warrant a response.



Did the RFL push Wakefield into the Super League way before the club was ready?



Not just another club playing RL at all. A club playing in the SL is a million miles away from just "another club playing rugby league" or are you finding it hard to distinguish between a RL club and a Super League RL club?

How are you defining ready? Wakefield were allowed into Super League despite not having a ground that was fit for purpose and they had to promise to move games to Barnsley to convince the authorities to allow them to take up their place. Once in, they played 1 game at Oakwell and nothing was mentioned about it after.

Think about what you're saying there then. It could be paraphrased to "Rugby League cannot grow neither organically or by league promotion, neither in the heartlands or in new areas"
Is that how you feel about our sport?