If England played the Upton under 9's and won easily would that mean that they had improved in attack and defence, or just that the opposition weren't upto it?

Comparing international results from one year to the next is pointless because so much changes from year to year.

had smith been at full back,mcguire in the halves and sinfield at loose this forum would have been full of pie eaters, bulls fans, saints fans et al telling us how poor they are, can't defend, not good enough.
funny how absent they are this morning

They only want what's best for England mate nothing to do with club bias

England V Australia with umpteen Leeds players and Tony Smith as coach = 52-4 = CARNAGE!

England V Australia with zero Leeds players and Steve McNamara as coach = 34-14 = RESPECTABILITY.

Tony Smith confirmed as the worst ever coach of the worst ever squad to tour down under.

Like 52-4 you mean?

Regards,
Jamie Peacock, Danny McGuire, Rob Burrow, Keith Senior & Kevin Sinfield.

Right on cue






You missed off the "Guffaw ,No Really ,S ,Snort and Duly Noted"


Same sh#t* different alias!

Again you can only play with what you’ve got. England are still England whenever its McGuire at six or Robinson. Australia are still Australia whenever its Cooper Cronk playing or Jonathan Thurston.

It’s the same competition and your unwillingness to acknowledge improvements and declines shows lack of something because the score lines and circumstances are different. One was in a final and the other was today in a regular four nations match.

Poor coach, poor players, same old same old

Damo, we are miles behind the Aussies, they replace quality with quality, we replace our players with s---e from Huddersfield

I acknowledge that the result is the same Damo we were out of our depth again!
It's all about context and ateod we were well beaten and IF we'd of had a full side and they had the same we'd of still lost maybe take the score into consideration if we lose by a try or 8pts max but a pasting is still a pasting.

If only we could call on the better players from the South Sea islands, Australia style.....

One was in the world cup and the other was in the four nations. Your unwillingness to acknowledge England as a respectable playing destination is also noted.

As a coach, Tony Smith has won more for England than Steve McNamara FACT.

Oh and you don’t see Steve McNamara ‘s England side getting to the four nations final this year do you?

I'm sure some of the Wales, Ireland & Scotish players who may have an English relative....

I agree that a pasting is still a pasting. But to totally un-recognise the difference between this years pasting of a score line and last years pasting of a score line is pretty reckless. You’ve got to take something out of every game even if its nit picking.

Imagine if it was the same score line as last years?

Then what?

It these replacement players that have defended much better than the last. Unfortunately it these replacement players that have attacked worse than the last.

Australia are getting worse, but not that much worse because as you said ‘[ithey replace quality with quality[/i’. You can only go by who’s available. I really don’t buy into how things could have been much better if so and so would of played because it didn’t happen, it guesswork at best and not reality.

The reality is the score line has changed but the winner and losers remain the same in the shape of losing England and Winning Australia.

Classy performance from england.

We only lost 20-14.

In it until the very end and if lunt had been given BoD..who knows.

Since we’re on that line of thinking.

What if Paul O Grady went on as Lily Savage?



He didn’t and fantasising over ‘what if’ will only lead to a can of worms with more 'didn't happen' outcomes than a Pandora’s box.

This is without doubt the worst backline in the history of English rugby & if we're relying on the likes of Goulding, Cudjoe & Briscoe that are ridiculously average then i'm afraid it shows how very little depth we have in our country.

i luv watching the NRL & luv the SL over here so personally I think we shud just pull out of this farcical tournament & concentrate on our own leagues. SL is a great product so lets be happy with it & if we want our fill of the top Aus stars then we can watch the NRL every weekend on the telly. Lets be honest here, Aus v NZ is the only competitive game now so let them have a 3 match series instead of flogging this dead horse every year, its very very tiresome now.

Personally, if the powers that be want an end of season tournament then i think we shud go back to the World Club Challenge in 1997 with top Aussie clubs v our top clubs here as at least we would compete.

I'm a Bulls fan & you're not telling me that the Bulls team from 5-6 yrs ago, the Rhinos from last 3 yrs & then Wigan & St's & now the fast improving Wire & Hudds wouldnt be more competetive than England are?? At least we'd win the odd games & have a go & run the top Aussie clubs close & it would be great end to the season.

Think it'd be better supported as well as i'd luv to go see say Rhinos v Manly, Wigan v Storm & St's v St George if they were played over here. Plus i think a lot more fans would travel down under as more matches to watch plus i'm sure we'd all have genuine hope that our team could win matches unlike in Internationals these days.

Anyone agree??

No, we tried an expanded WCC and got spanked in that as well.

How about, actually trying to improve, instead of settling for p15s poor mediocraty?

So I take it there was a game this morning?

Must of been.

Australia getting worse?!



Australia do have an ageing side however getting "worse" I'm not a 100% where you are coming from on that one lad

do we think the same thing would happen again? or would we (SL) fair marginally better?

I think we would do a bit better

Must have been.