Given the amount of tripe you've written over the years, I'd rather listen to Gotcha than you!

If you cast your mind back to the pre-season, this was being hyped as the strongest Leeds SL squad ever. On paper it is. My own thoughts are:

1) We put far too much emphasis on the WCC, at the expense of some dreadful performances around that game in the league. Losses against poor teams are not easy to claw back over the course of a season. I don't think this is exaggerating, you only have to look back at the comments of a number of players and Bluey himself to see that eyes were fixed firmly on the WCC from day one.

2) Injuries have really hurt. We lost a couple of other games due to lacking just too many first 17 players. That can be excused - e.g. Wigan away.

3) Wigan and Warrington are better sides than in previous years. They are both showing the benefit of better coaching and confidence.

4) Our team seems jaded and TBH have looked very unconvincing even when winning. To me the most telling game wasn't the final but the semi vs Sts. We looked good in patches in attack, but were dreadfully easy to open up in defence. Had Sts not blown a few opportunities we could easily have lost that game against a team with no halfback.

Bottom line is we don't seem to have great patterns in either attack or defence that have been sustained over a full 80 minutes except for the WCC. I have the strong impression that we've been trying to cruise through the season, trusting to find form 'when it counts'. That seemed to be the case last year, but we also won a lot more games and played better far more often.

To me that does smack of a complacency around the side. We can turn it around in the play offs, but if we go out early then this will have to go down as a poor season. Personally I don't buy that getting to the CC final is a great achievement if you get hammered when you get there. Had we lost narrowly then I'd be the first to say we gave it a great shot. As it is we were mullered, and nothing should cover that up.

BTW, I for one don't want to underestimate or overestimate the importance of the coach. I suspect that this Leeds team is very big on player power. To blame Bluey alone for all the failings this year would be harsh IMO. At the end of the year I think there are a few players who need to have a long look at themselves.

I was speaking with Wayne Godwin on bank holiday Monday at Xscape. I told him I was gutted, embarrassed, and well pished off with the side after that performance. He told me I should not be so hard and these players deserve a lot more credit than they got.

But he also agreed that many of this Leeds side have reached an end to what they are used to, conditioning wise. He said Leeds and Saints players have pushed their body's so hard over the last few years that what they have produced is phenominal. He argued that fans can not even begin to understand just what these players have been doing not only on the pitch but also in training, in order to achieve what they have. Everybody else is now trying to catch up also.

But what he made clear is that there is not much left in them, and it is not something that is going to come back, as their bodies are just battered. He even told me that as young as Ryan Hall is (he is a mate of his), that he will be surprised if he manages another 4 or 5 years. He said Ryans body is breaking up every week, and he is been patched up week after week. He said the intensity that these players have played at can not be matched continuously. He said that Jamie Peacock and Keith Senior don't even feel pain like other players anymore, as they are constantly riddles with pain anyway, even in the close season. When those two feel pain, it is real pain he said, and that Peacock probably came off at Cas not even thinking twice that it might be a bad injury.

What he said is exactly what I have been saying and others for quite a while now. It does not matter diddly squad what the birth date on a birth certificate says. You can not make a body do something extra when it has had enough. That is exactly what quite a few of these players are facing now.

I wont be surprised if Ryan Hall is still playing when he is 26.

Same here i don't thi nk Ryan is as "biscuit boned" as Godwin.

I agree with pretty much all of that. A very good and fair assesment indeed imo.



I also agree with what Gotcha is saying also, I've thought for a while we are paying the price for the super efforts of the last 3 seasons, it takes a super human effort in a salary capped era to be champions 3 times in a row

Brent webb told me he'd be suprised if rob burrow doesn't suffer from severe brain damage when he retires due to the amount of concussions he's suffered. His bodies at the limit. The point of no return.

Now he wonders round like a zombie, only physically and mentally able to cope with the game. Anything else, like a conversation, or wlking to the shops is too much. His body is that battered.

I imagine in the future, as people CONSTANTLY want the game faster and harder it will become like rollerball. A plyer will have a lifespan of 4 or 5 games.....before they die.

Lauititi told me his body is so battered up, he doesn't feel feelings anymore.

Indeed it was. I would muster by many who are now calling for it to be dismantled.

I do recall suggesting titles like "Leeds greatest ever squad" should be reserved until seasons end to see what they have actually done.

Some short memories on here.

to f*** off and stop going through his bins at night.

Me included in that. I still thought a few weeks back that we had enough this year to win both trophies also. I've always maintained it would be 2011 that we would see the real decline in this side, unless changes were made.

So yeah, I also believed it was the strongest squad. To be fair, it still probably was, considering the amount of injuries we have had, who knows.



Indeed you did. Although I don't recall anybody saying "Leeds greatest ever", but the strongest you said as above.

Brent Webb told me that Keith Senior died 5 years ago and they just warm his carcass up for match day.

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That was worth the coffee nose rinse!

Heard a rumour that Lauitiiti may be retiring even though he signed a new deal, as like Donald.

What was your opinion on the strength of the the Leeds squad assembled by Gary Hetherington for the 2010 season.

My opinion was that on paper it was the best seen at Leeds since 2004.

Waiting for results to determine the strength of a squad (in comparison to previous years) relies on all the other teams faced to stand still which they're unlikely to do..

Seems like Donald has set a precedent for antipodeans to bail out on their contacts by allegedly retiring from the game.

the bulk of the side is fine.for me 2 or 3 new bodies would freshen things up a bit

Re Lauitiiti: If he does I'm sure, just like Donald, it will have nothing to do with his non selection in the semi-final and/or final.

If that be the case then we have a lot to thank "Leeds greatest ever coach" for.

There's another I am reminded of, 3 months into his tenure Mclennan was so described (not by me I hasten to add). So, with Leeds greatest ever coach and Leeds greatest/strongest ever squad I am left scratching my head as to why we're struggling to finish 4th (maybe 6th) and getting walloped in the CC final.

Unless, of course, the perceived wisdom of those on here who don't share my well thought out opinions is somewhat lacking. Surely not?

I don't form opinions based upon lists on pieces of papers. I leave that to the statisticians.

I attend the games, watch them and form my opinions based thereon. It's an approach I cautioned many of you to adopt.

My opinion is this 2010 vintage is a pale shadow of the 2009 vintage featuring players like Ashley Gibson and Simon Worrall contributing to a LLS and a GF. Players many deemed not good enough or sexy enough compare to their exotic sounding replacements, Delaney and Eastwood.

I thought this was a very strong squad - on paper it looks it - sadly games are not played on paper.

Peacock, Bailey and McGuire apart few of the senior players have played anywhere near their potential. It appears a season too far for the likes of Webb, Kylie, Burrow, Senior, Ali, Donald, Diskin. Which is all the more puzzling that GH has resigned them for next year

Added to the development at Wigan and Warrington - an unknown at the start of the season - and this side looks positively pedestrian in comparison. They appear almost punch-drunk i.e. they know what they want to do but they simply cannot execute.

Not that I personally said such about McClennan, but to anybody who gives a well thought out opinion, I would guess that the fact that you are talking about a time frame of 3 years would quite obvioulsy be good enough reasoning for that. It doesn't take much to think about without the need to scratch an head.

I dunno, maybe McLennan has taken the side as far as he can? Leeds got the change of coach right last time. McLennan came in and freshened things up. It now looks to me as if that perhaps may need to happen again.

I think the coach and playing squad are fine.

It's an overhaul of most of the supporters that is needed.

No, it appears you prefer to wait until after the event, I think that covers it.