I think TVOC was talking about the quota of non federation trained players rather than salary cap regulations. At least that is what I think he was discussing and that was what my previous response was all about.

G1 - I think you were looking in the wrong section, it is covered in section B, but it could be that section C does not reflect the update in section B. If that is the only change in section C since the last amendment then I can see why the RFL did not bother with an update.

[iSeason 2010: a maximum of 6 players who satisfy none of the definitions of Club
Trained Players, Federation Trained Players from the Club’s own federation or
Academy Junior and a minimum of 7 Club Trained Players or Academy Juniors[/i

Actually, the OP that asked the question was indeed correct in some ways and I was still working under the old rule in my head. So with Jamie Lyon if they did not have room at Saints, then he could not be re-signed as he went to Aus. I apologise, but of course Scott Donald would be a federation trained player if he left us to go elsewhere in SL, so not taking up a more valuable non-federation spot.

[i
(a) ‘Club Trained Player’: a player who has been on the Club’s register for any 3 full
Seasons before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age
for Academy rugby league. For the 2008 Season only this shall be amended to 1
full Season and for the 2009 Season only this shall be amended to 2 full
Seasons. For the avoidance of doubt, where a player satisfies the definition in
each of the 2008 and 2009 Seasons and is on the Club’s register in both of those
seasons, the Player shall retain the status of ‘Club Trained Player’ in 2010 for so
long as he remains on the register of that Club but shall lose such status (unless
he satisfies the full definition of 3 years) upon being removed from the club’s
register and shall not regain it simply by returning to the Club’s register.
Otherwise, and again for the avoidance of doubt, from the 2010 Season onwards
a player must satisfy the requirement to have been on the Club’s register for 3
full Seasons before his 21st birthday in order to qualify as a ‘Club Trained Player’
and the fact that he may have qualified as a ‘Club Trained Player’ in the 2008
and/or 2009 Seasons shall be irrelevant.

(b) ‘Federation Trained Player’: a player who, for any 3 full Seasons before the end
of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age for Academy rugby
league has been on one of the Club’s register or the register of another Club
being a member of the same rugby league federation. For the avoidance of doubt
if a player moves from one club’s register to another club’s register and there is a
period of no more than 28 days in the Season (as defined) and any amount of
the period between the 1 December and the day of the first League Match,
Representative Match or Cup Tie (whichever is sooner) between being removed
from one register and being registered with another club, consecutivity shall not
be broken for the purposes of this clause.

(c) ‘Academy Junior’: a player who is eligible by age for Academy rugby league and
who is on the Club’s Register.[/i

As I read that then, Lee Smith would now be non-federation player and have to come back as one of the six if we indeed have room... tvoc... do we have room?

BUT we do have an RFL get-out clause! Given Lee Smith was a Leeds Academy trained player and has gone to RU but not played first team football, this might wash with the RFL board -

[iB1:15 The Board shall be given the discretion to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club
Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ notwithstanding that the player does not
satisfy strictly the definition where in the Board’s absolute discretion the Board is satisfied
that in all the circumstances the player satisfies the spirit of the definition and in particular
shall take into account in relation to ‘Federation Trained Player’ any time registered with a
member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation, and in relation to ‘Club
Trained Player’ time registered on loan with a member club of the relevant federation or a
member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation. The burden of
establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual player.[/i

Could he sign for Leeds Carnegie and be payed by them but play for the Rhino's?

THE Yorkshire Evening Post understands utility-back Lee Smith, who left Leeds last autumn to join Wasps rugby union club, is on a list of possible loan signings Rhinos are considering to help them through their current injury crisis. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6169438.jp

THE Yorkshire Evening Post understands utility-back Lee Smith, who left Leeds last autumn to join Wasps rugby union club, is on a list of possible loan signings Rhinos are considering to help them through their current injury crisis. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6169438.jp

Is this a cap question or registration question?

If it is about the cap it is no, he would still count on the cap and based on his full salary and probable bonuses.

If it is registration, then it makes no difference, he still has to be registered as an RL player at an RL club.

Quote ="Frosties."THE Yorkshire Evening Post understands utility-back Lee Smith, who left Leeds last autumn to join Wasps rugby union club, is on a list of possible loan signings Rhinos are considering to help them through their current injury crisis. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6169438.jp'" Does that mean they read it on here

Quote ="Frosties."THE Yorkshire Evening Post understands utility-back Lee Smith, who left Leeds last autumn to join Wasps rugby union club, is on a list of possible loan signings Rhinos are considering to help them through their current injury crisis. www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6169438.jp'" Does that mean they read it on here

Nope, it was in the newspaper before it came out on this site.. after the Hull KR game in the game review. Been mentioned on Wasps forums too, and BBC 606, and Lee Smith randomly changing his FB photo from him in his Wasps kit to him in his England RL kit? Cant think anything into that one though obvs.

Lol.

Hey im not the first person to mention something about him on his facebook on here

That's Life used to have a 'Jobsworth' section where 'terms and conditions' would be read out to much bafflement and amusement. I've just had a flashback to Esther Rantzen, Cyril Fletcher, Keiron Prendiville and Glyn Worsnip..... bad times.

I particularly like this bit.

[iB1:15 =#FF0000The Board shall be given the discretion to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ notwithstanding that the player does not satisfy strictly the definition where in the Board’s absolute discretion the Board is satisfied that in all the circumstances the player satisfies the =#FF0000spirit of the definition and in particular shall take into account in relation to ‘Federation Trained Player’ any time registered with a member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation, and in relation to ‘Club Trained Player’ time registered on loan with a member club of the relevant federation or a
member club of a member organisation of the relevant federation. The burden of
establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual player.[/i

Of course it has long since been established on here that there is no such thing as 'the spirit of the regulations.'

Yeah, by you!!!! You starting a thread on it doesn't count!

And don't we know it.

Actually I dont have a account on Wasps.. why would i want to make a account on yawnion forum which i dont even like? Got to be more Adams out there in the world im sure

Cheers IA. If you need a job as a research assistant (on a voluntary basis) I can accomadate you)

Section B does indeed provide the clarity. Shame if contradicts with the out-dated section C.



So, in other words, in order to make things absolutely clear, individual players that may not qualify as federation trained or indeed club trained can apply to be treated as such at the absolute discretion of the board and at the burden of the player.

In order to attain such a qualification the only guidelines are that the board will take into account time registered with a club or time spent on loan with a club.

It's not clear at all but i suspect, on advice, they've kept it in the loosest possible terms.

Given they were contracted with us before the introduction of the regulations it wouldn't take much sabre rattling to have Kylie, Donald, Ali and Webb qualified as Federation trained. However, we're allowed a maximum of 6 according to B1:11C(c) anyway so at least one of the aforementioned four players must have been qualified as federation trained. Given that the Super League web site says that will be reduced to 5 next year it will be interesting to see what happens wit Buderus, Ali and Donald, all of whom are out of contract and only one of whom would definitely count as Fed trained (Buderus).

let me translate the legal-ease of that particular clause for you.

"[iGiven that our new regulations would not stand up in a court of law if anyone ever challenged them this clause is sufficiently woolley to allow us to accede to the demands of any player with a lawyer and the cajones to test us[/i."

You have to wonder why Wakefield didn't present a case for Ben Jeffries to be re-classified as Club or Federation Trained as it cost them the services of the already contracted James Stosic for 2010? Very strange on the face of it.



Or to put it another way, definitely count as non-fed trained (Buderus)

With the same username as your twitter username?

Ha!

My twitter names my full name...

Looks like it could of fallen through if this is how the Wasps A team line up tonight... www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps31386.ink

Looks like it could of fallen through if this is how the Wasps A team line up tonight... www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps31386.ink

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... -lee-smith

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... -lee-smith

I hope he does return but permanently not on loan.

Quality piece of journalism there:

[iThe Rhinos have lost the Australian wing Scott Donald for three months with a =#FF0000wrist injury; his most obvious replacement, Kallum Watkins, is out for the season with a ruptured cruciate ligament; and the=#FF0000 centre Carl Ablett will be out for another month with =#FF0000a knee problem. [/i

[iThe Rhinos' captain, Kevin Sinfield, =#FF0000who has missed the last two games with a thigh injury, is doubtful for the Wigan game but Ryan Hall, Danny Buderus, Ryan Bailey and Tom Bush should be fit to return.[/i

I'm still left to wonder what this desperate search 'far and wide' for an outside back is saying to Jones-Bishop out on loan at the Harlequins.

I'm sure they've spoken to him to explain their reasons. The thing is, he's probably better there knowing he's first choice in his favoured position than coming back here playing on the wing for a few weeks then going back to the under 20's. Once we've recalled him can Quins loan him again in the same season? I don't know if there are any rules concerning that. Even if he can, when he goes back he could have lost his place and that doesn't help anybody.

It's an odd one that's for sure but they're the only reasons I can come up with why we're not calling him back.