Yes, I did not realise it was quite as late as 1888, I thought it had been decades earlier when they split the diocese of Ripon down into smaller areas but you are right it was much later. I think I was confused by the date of the extending of Wakefield Cathedral in the mid 1800's but it was still a parish church then.

PS... and ten and five years before Bradford respectively!





I don't dispute that at all, although I am not sure why you are so insistent on not using the more widely used and understood word of 'capital'? You are once again correct, as the strict definition of the word 'capital' refers only to nations and not regions of nations so it is the county town/city and I did use the modern term of West Yorkshire instead of the West Riding of Yorkshire, and strictly speaking you are again correct because it did not exist as such until after the abolished the County Council... which met at County Hall... in Wakefield!.

If you look at my other post Wakefield was been dwarfed by Leeds from about the mid 1800's onwards and by the late 1800's Bradford and Leeds dominated the region, but you have to acknowledge Wakefield and also Pontefract's historical importance to the region. Not only that, it was the coal mined in Wakefield district that fuelled Leeds industrial success!

I am not sure why we are having a p1ss1ing contest about though? I thought people were giving Wakefield a hard time for no reason really and I think many Leeds residents are quick to condemn it's city neighbour without fully understand it's historical role in the success of the region and what is the very fine city of Leeds.

Even further away from the original spirit of the post, we should all be ganging up against Sheffield whose jealousy of the success of Leeds culminated in their MPs bleating to the Govt about the use of Yorkshire Forward money to assist the development of the Leeds Arena.
Their moaning holds undue wight with the govt because of who their local MPs are & it nearly lost Leeds the major external funding for the Arena.
Mind you the tory leader of the city council didn't help when he boasted that it would be built with or without the Yorks Forward cash.
Had I been in charge of doling out the funds I'd have said, well go on then & we'll give it to somewhere else that can't raise the money itself.
Sheffield has long been envious of the success of Leeds.

I agree with you about the Yorkshire Forward money. I would have expected the Sheffield Arena itself to make some waves but the extent of the intervention of the Sheffield MP's in this matter was out of order in my opinion. We did not see the Manchester MP's bleating about the building of an arena in Leeds and while I know the issue surrounded Yorkshire Forward money primarily, it is about the same distance from Leeds to Manchester as from Leeds to Sheffield. In terms of overall leisure facilities and funding for such, Sheffield has done very well indeed and has an international athletics stadium, international pool, large ice complex and large multi-purpose arena while Leeds only has one of the things on that list. It is not as if the proposal for the Leeds arena was a similar multi-purpose arena set up, the Leeds proposal is for a large 'theatre style' arena.

If the rumours are true Leeds will probably be getting it's own ice rink next to Elland Road fairly soon, the site where, when still at Leeds City Council, I did some feasibility for an arena some 16 or 17 years ago... my how time flies. I wonder if we are going to get the same bleating again from our neighbours in Sheffield?

Sheffield made a complete a[irs[/ie of remodelling itself after the decimation of its main industry in the 1980s and epitomised the disaster that an out-of-town mall can wreak on a city centre (Newcastle didn't do a bad job of cocking the whole thing up either) - both cities look at Leeds' city centre with envious eyes and wonder where all of their Victorian and Edwardian buildings went (how many geordie voices can you hear in Leeds Market on a saturday ?)

...and don't forget nearly killing it's entire city centre retail trade in the 90's buy building an over-large shopping centre next the M1! If it was not for John Lewis and the posh north Derbyshire set shopping there, it would now resemble Castleford town centre... wait a minute... large shopping centre next to motorway kills town centre... whatever next eh, a ski slope!

If I recall correctly Sheffield already has a ski slope but it's outdoors!
Still at least they'll have snow this year.

Quite ... and I agree.
I work on projects that take me to lots of apparently unprepossessing places and there is always something interesting or historic about them (I am deliberately forgetting Milton Keynes ... ).


I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about Wakefield, many of my family still live there or thereabouts and I have been very familiar with the place since the 1950's (I could bore for England about Wakefield's history) ... and it has been so badly abused and redeveloped by successive councils that it isn't even a shadow of its former self.
It's a crying shame and Wakefield deserves better ... hence my comments earlier about how I'd be surprised if the park and ride to the proposed stadium was the council's idea.

Maybe that's what happens when you have a city dominated by a single political party over a prolonged period of time?
Those in power do not have to listen to the electorate & believe that come what may they are always right.
Leeds has not been subject to this, usually being controlled by those in opposition nationally so that there are always checks & balances in place. That requires a greater consensus within a city - politically, commercially & financially.
Compare Wakefield with a similar postion until recently in Sheffield and Liverpool. Both cities that declined dramatically during the 70s, 80s & 90s.
All my own thoughts obviously.

But ones with which I'd agree.

Me too. As a resident of Wakefield and a Trinity supporter, we've had too many years of a situation whereby you could put a red rosette on someones cat and it would get voted in.

Interesting post.
The thing is if the land is Green Belt in the UDP then its green belt and that is a major stumbling block as you cannot just bend the rules to suit you have to follow the correct process and whilst it may eventually get approval it may take years to get it.

Not a major stumbling block.
No rules need to be bent.

It will be called in,because of green belt status.But where a local council is backing the development it is normally just passed back to them.

I hope they get it, always have a good day out in Wakefield and will be a shame if they dont get a license the next time to compete in Super League!

i'm not as well read as some of you guy's ,but ive just been reading about the war's of the roses and there was a" battle of wakefield "that goes back to the 15th century.
i know about the big battle of towton ,but did leeds figure in the wotrs?
ive always had a soft spot for wakey and i rembember the great side of the early 60s

Towton is in the Leeds MDC area, so yes you could argue that Leeds did participate in the WOTR.
Stretching it a bit though.

Stetching it would be the biggest understatement of the new decade... Towton does now indeed (just) fall into Leeds MDC but no, Leeds was just a village at the time of the battle of Wakefield. Wakefield and Pontefract were in militarily stategic locations in relation to defending York and on the route from York to London. Wakefield Bridge (now better known as Chantry Bridge) was an important crossing point of the river Calder and indeed that is why a Chantry Chapel was built there.

At the time of the battle of Wakefield in 1460 the Lancastrians controlled Pontefract Castle and the Yorkists Sandal Castle (which was probably known as Wakefield Castle at the time). Richard the Duke of York lost big style and ended up with his head on a gate in York!

very interesting, thanks

hence the rhyme
"The grand old Duke of York"

whilst on the subject of rhymes, "here we go round the mullberry bush" was also about Wakefield or Wakefield prison to be more precise. The mullberry bush in question was and still is at the centre of the old excercise yard and the prisoners would chant the rhyme as they walked around it.

Also on the subject of Wakefield prison, when it was redesigned it became the model for new prisons around the world.

There have been m any candidates for the owner of this rhym... the modern form, has become fixed on the Duke of York.

Candidates for the duke in question include:

Richard, Duke of York (1411–60), who was defeated at the Battle of Wakefield on 30 December 1460. Richard's army, some 8,000 strong, was awaiting reinforcements at Sandal Castle in Wakefield (the castle was built on top of a Norman motte). He was surrounded by Lancastrian forces some three times that number, but chose to sally forth to fight. Richard died in a pitched battle at Wakefield Green, together with between one third and one half of his army.

James II (1633-1701), formerly Duke of York , who in 1688 marched his troops to Salisbury Plain to resist the invasion from his son-in-law William of Orange, only to retreat and disperse them as his support began to evaporate.

The most common attribution is to Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany (1763-1827), the second son of King George III and Commander-in-Chief of the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars. His one field command of significance was the Flanders Campaign of 1793-4, which resulted in the heavy defeat at the Battle of Tourcoing (1794), followed by his recall to England. Flanders has something of a reputation for being flat, the specific location of the "hill" in the nursery rhyme has been attributed to be the town of Cassel which is built on a hill which rises 176 metres (about 570 feet) above the otherwise flat lands of Flanders in northern France.

An unquestionable reference is the rhyme to remember the colours of the rainbow Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain (Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet)

Y-Town forever.

Brrapp.

All the battles of the Wars of the Roses were in the 15th century


No, but nearly 200 years later, it did figure in the English Civil war.


Re: the so-called wars of the roses ... it has long been a puzzle to me why the battle of Towton isn't more widely known about.
It was the bloodiest battle ever fought in England and more died at Towton on that one snowy March day than died on the first day of the Somme.
Estimates range between 25,000 and 37,000 dead.
When you remember that, after the initial archery showers, it was mainly hand-to-hand killing, it is a huge number.

Maybe if Shakespeare had written a play about it, more people would know the name ... but then, he'd have probably slanted it against the Yorkists, as he did with Richard III.

So many interesting and entertaining facts about Wakefield – doesn’t really stop it from being a bit of a dross pot though does it?