Honestly I think it's do with physiology. Whereas rugby players in Europe are generally those who are the wrong shape for Soccer. (And let's be honest, ask any European rugby player if he'd rather be playing Soccer for £10k a week let alone £100k and you know what the answer would be) Super 14 players are like performance athletes, they're animals. Super quick, powerful and smart. Whereas European Rugby is very scrum orientated the bent in Super 14 seems to be running with the ball, and my word do you see some running, defence seems almost optional sometimes.

I never thought I'd say it but I have seen the best of Mark McLinden in Union, he has so much time with the ball. He was good in League but now he's a different animal altogether.

Actually, it was you instigated the pre SL/SL comparison by suggesting I should watch some classic CC finals where the 5m rule was in force



I can imagine Holmes and Topliss in the modern day, Dyl I'm struggling with (too small?). Not sure if Dick would last 10 mins with today's refs

I should have qualified that statement with the phrase Northern Hemisphere in it.

Most of the Premiership stuff I've watched over the last 12 months has been a series of lengthy kicking duels for field position and hunt the error.

Not dissimilar to the SL Grand Final, in that respect.

I dont think SL has declined, it may have declined this season from a spectators point of view but I think thats down to defences improving rather than attacks being poorer.

As for comparing it to old CC finals, in terms of quality of skills there is no comparison. The speed of defences, quality of passing, tackling, and especially PTB's is far superior than it was back then. Thats not to denegrate the old players from that time its simply a product of being full-time.

I would say the old games were probably better to watch since there was much more space and much more opportunity to attack and get the ball out wide than there is today.

I am well aware of what you were referring to. And I wholeheartedly agree with you. Northern RU is for the most part dour bilge. S14 however is crackers.

Interesting that Bryan Habana was whinging about the ELV's when they were introduced saying they made the game of RU too much like RL. Personally I think he has a point, but as I love my RL to be fast and flowing that suits me just fine.

Both sides took those options. One team was better at reading and stopping them.
How does this lead to you wanting to close the 10m gap to 5m?

Surely thats not possible with a 5m defensive line ????

Forgive me I must have been watching a different game. IIRC Saints persisted in 5 drives and a punt for at least 90% of the game.



I didnt say I "wanted" it changing just posed a question.

I was seeking to establish if others thought it was relevant to the development of the SL game.

It was a huge change from the 5m to increase it to 10m and it has forced the game and the players to change.

Has it been for the better thats all I was asking really.

I'd be interested to compare how many games there were this season with more than 60 points in total and less than 20 gap between the sides. In the early years after moving to summer I can remember a lot of games finishing with scores like 42-34 and the game being compared to basketball.

Is a tight, tense 20-16 game more or less entertaining that say a 46-all draw where neither side looks like it fancies doing any defending?

Hey the "Gonna score one more than you" approach made Man Yoo one of the best and most exciting teams to watch for a generation.

I think it must have been a different sport, let alone a different game

The problem IMO isn't the PTB its the intensity of 90% of SL matches isn't suficent to prepare most of the players for the step up to test rugby. If the majority of games had the same intensity of a Saints Leeds game then I think a lot of our players would be able to handle test rugby a lot better than they can now.

You have a point there added to which the Australians have the advantage of a true "national" game with the high intensity league plus a SSO series to lead to Test status.

The wider the base the higher the peak of the pyramid of achievement

Sadly its an undenyable FACT

Neither of which is available to the SL so we will always struggle at Test level IMHO.

Always is a long time. RL needs to look at it's location "to use marketing parlance" in the sporting arena at large. The "space" it occupies, even geographically is very small. However the game is being driven forward by certain people. And I hope in time that the base of the pyramid widens and the peak rises.
I also unfortunately see the base of the Australian pyramid narrowing as Soccer takes root.

Ah yes but that defensive line was incredibly slow and disorganised by todays standards due to the forwards back then looking like...well...me.

Fortunately there's still a place in professional sport for people like me, its called rugby union.

Yes your right...never say never.

Yes at 57 I think I could still play at least half a game of RU.



On your first point you are also correct but I was imagining the current SL fitness levels in regard to the 5M rule.

What a great thread.

Perhaps a reason why the current England team is so short of gamebreaking halfbacks and threequarters is exactly because of the pre-occupation with a quick ptb over the past 13 years?

We simply haven't needed to produce players with the skill set to break a well organised defence because we only needed a quick series of scoots from dummy half to men in support.

Now that there is more time to hold down at the ptb players are facing more of a challenge to break defences. As G1 says it'll take a long time before we develop players with the skills to break defences but we need to be patient.

Simply going back to a quick ptb wouldn;t be any help to the England side now as players in the NRL have already developed their attacking skills anyway.

I hope referees ingnore the arguments from Saints fans and Andy Wilson and continue with the current interpretations.

And what incentives the quick PTB followed by a forward roll over the gain line....the 10M Rule

Slow down the PTB and reduce the 10M defence perhaps ????.

Players will then need to learn the skills we lack.

As Richie has said it seems to be working by simply slowing down the ptb. If we find more blow out scorelines then fine, reduce the 10m but I think that it's ok at the moment provided the ptb is kept at the current speed.

Like you players and coaches will have to catch on soon enough and we'll see players finding other ways to break defences rather than relying on getting a "roll on" with some scoots.

Absolutely. We have spent an awful lot of effort to modify our game to penalise defenders and make attacking easier. Good teams will still have more attacking options and more pace, but we have been rewarding and developing players with a different skill set over the SL era. When we came up against the rediculously slow PTB at the World Cup we were shown up for the lack of creativity we have in attack.

Good defence needs skillful attacking players to break it down and skillful attacking play is good to watch - as is good defence.
When we had the 5m rule the ball would fly everywhere. We did make a lot of mistakes but we had skill that even the Aussies were admiring of when they came over to play with our clubs in the 80's.

And as for the comments on the final from Andy Wilson, I just don't get what some poeple want.

On the international stage I have recently thought we were woefully short in the kicking department.

On saturday 3/4 tries came from kicks, maybe the top players are starting to develop, which underlines the importance of high intensity play-offs, when teams are solid in defence and don't allow you to walk right through them.

Wilson probably wants a game with a few scintillating tries thrown in that he's able to describe in a few concise phrases. Outlining a brilliant technical defensive effort, spread throughout a game, in a paragraph or two is probably beyond him (and most other writers, come to that). The lack of technical coverage the game receives in the national media is appalling. This may be due to editorial pressure, but if it isn't, then Wilson's not doing the game any favours by dismissing tight, defensive games in the manner he has.

So we've had a slow play the ball this season and the net result on average points scored has been what?

3 points.

(SL Regular Rounds only comparison)

1996 - 56
1997 - 47
1998 - 44
1999 - 46
2000 - 49
2001 - 52
2002 - 50
2003 - 48
2004 - 50
2005 - 55
2006 - 49
2007 - 46
2008 - 49
2009 - 46

All that miserable little tw#t wants is a season where his beloved wigan win something,he's just a whinging drone who will chelp about our sport at every oppurtunity.