That would indicate what the top academies were rather than are to be honest.

For example, Wakefield and Wigan/Bulls are in the academy GF this year, I think Leeds ran in 10th.

The reserve GF is Saints v Wigan after Saints beat Leeds at the weekend.

Looking forward to watching the reserve final at the JJB on Sunday, hopefully a decent crowd on.

The success of an Academy shouldn't be measured by where it finishes in the league table in any particular season, it should be measured on how many top class first teamers it produces for itself and other clubs.

Absolutely agree, but stands to reason that the better academy/reserve sides are likely to have better and/or more prospects in them.

I would imagine the Leeds team that produced McGuire/Burrow et al performed pretty well in their academy leagues - although I have no idea whether that is true or not.

Doesn't necessarily transfer into first team players though - Leeds won a Colts title (the old under 19 competition) back in the early 80s (84 I think) and IIRC only two of that side went on to represent GB - Roy Powell and Paul Medley.

Age group rugby gives you an indication of who the best players are in that age group, but not always how they will cope with the transition to open age.

Besides, with two junior competitions running side by side for the SL clubs, there is always a temptation to "fast track" the better players of the younger group up into the older group or even the fringes of the first team squad, distorting results all around.

I know Leeds went through a spell recently where the Senior Academy side had a load of kids in it who were still Junior Academy eligible, and not surprisingly they struggled for results against their older counterparts at other clubs.

I should have made my self more clear, I wasnt meaning the position of the side in the league, just the amount of ex Leeds/Saints/Wigan Acadamy players (i.e. come though the junior ranks) that are now first teamers of other clubs.

And with Ratu now going to HKR and Gibson off as well (likely cas or Salford) thats two more that have come through Leeds' Acadamy that I predict will be regular first teamers at the clubs they are going to.

Can't blame him. His choices were to hang around at Leeds being at best third/fourth choice or probably get a locked in spot at KR. I still believe Leeds shouldn't have signed Delaney.

Regardless of results our current crop includes 3 very young players who have already played 1st team rugby and look very comfortable in doing so, Allan, Jones Bishop and Watkins. If each season brings one or two of that standard its' fine and I could care less what results the Academy team produces.

In the nineties didn't we win something like 8 Academy titles in a row with very little 1st team success. I think those teams were a generation before McGuire, Burrow etc. I think it was the Marcus Vass, Kris Smith era.

I agree with you on that one.
It does seem a waste of an overseas spot on someone who is not going to set the place alight maybe like Soliola would have done.
I know people are saying that Bluey knows best and I am sure he does.
But for me I would have been happier with Ratu, Watkins and Coady to choose from.

have you seen delaney play?
are you writing him him off before you have?

coady,in blueys own words, is at least a season away from the first team.
watkins will replace senior, he looks far more comfortable on the left and will get more game time next season.
ratu i'm still not sure was good enough for a top championship chasing side.guess we will see next season if he was

Ratu will come good with this opportunity - which, after all is what it is all about, he will find a place in SL and grow from there as Gibson, Jones-bishop etc

I reckon he will end up in the backrow next year, which is where he started.

No unfortunately I do not get to Australia as often as I would like


No I am not writing him off as you will see I said Bluey would know better.
What I am saying is that it would have been nice to see home grown players come through instead of using an overseas quota.
I am sure Delaney will be fine.
I would rather have Ratu, Watkins or Coadey.
The way Senior is playing I don`t see Watkins getting many starts at LC.

You'd rather Leeds fielded inferior players just because of their nationality?

That's a difficult argument, and for me it is really at the crux of being a "club supporter" or a "game supporter", either being ok in my book.

Personally, I'd prefer to see a less experienced young British talent given the opportunity rather than a "safer bet" overseas player. It's going to be very hard to improve the overall level of GB qualified player pool, in terms of either quality or number, without giving them regular opportunities in SL.

Of course the problem is that legally my preference is entirely unenforceable, and many clubs will simply prefer to take the safe option for fear of falling revenues though lower gates.

At least delaney is 23 and not a 31 year old topping up his pension.

I'd like to see the club have the courage to go with Ratu next year but as we saw at the start of this season, our supporters are not prepared to be patient and see young players given an opportunity to develop.

I suspect if we read threads discussing our options at centre from the first two months of this season there'd be a few hypocrites who are now saying how they feel we should have given Ratu an opportunity rather than signing someone from the NRL.

The success or otherwise of the England national team isn't an issue for clubs, and neither should it be.

The objectives of a club are to run as a profitable business and be as successful as it can be while living inside that business model.

Whether or not that translates into international success ain't their problem.

As long as Tesco are making profits, you think they worry about the state of the rest of the UK retail sector?

and herein lies the problem. Whilst clubs first duty is to themselves and their ultimate sustainability, I believe that they all, professional or amateur, have a role to play in the promotion and support of the International game.

Precisely how can any sport grow an International game if all it's constituent parts show no interest? If we take your position to the extreme, I take it you would be happy to see the end of International RL completely?

Yes, I do - because without the rest of the UK retail sector, it's appropriate framework and member organisations etc, Tesco wouldn't be in the position it is now.

Do you think that no private enterprise can recognise the importance of competition / overall growth and actively support the sector in which it operates?

Back to RL - as batleyrhino says, you have to give young players a chance at the top level if the game as a whole is to flourish.

Obviously each club should focus on their own business / sporting objectives, but they also have to recognise their wider responsibility to the future progress of the game.

Personally yes to a degree.
Whilst I have yet to witness the skills of Delaney.
I have seen the skills of Watkins and Ratu.
For me even though they are British they are still not bad players and may only get better over time.
Who is to say they wont be better than Delaney if given the opportunity?

I could have really done with some support earlier this season when championing the clubs decision to give opportunities to Watkins, Gibson and Smith to play in the right centre.

I don't recall getting much but I did get plenty of opposition.

How refreshing that now we HAVE signed someone from the NRL peoples views seem to be changing.

I don't think I've seen this elsewhere on this thread, will we have received any transfer fee for Ratu given that he's come through our ranks & is only 21?

i think it's a case of the coaching staff judging him not good enough and they see him every day.

That doesn't say much for the rest of the reserves though when he's just been voted reserve team player of the year.
I think more likely it's that he's been offered more money & the security of a 2 year conttact by HKR with (in his view at least) a greater likelihood of 1st team rugby. Esp in view of Webster's and Walker's injury problems.

I think I have been singing Ratu`s praises for a good couple of years now certainly before he went to Halifax.
But I get your drift G1.

IIRC Were we not labelled believists by some????
I was also called clueless for championing players like Gibson,Ratu and predicting manning would play and do well!!
I do think the ratu situation has come about because i'm led to believe the club wanted to retain him but were looking at the "dual registration" option for him but the player himself was attracted to the rovers offer both playing wise and contactual so good luck to him.