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| Quote ="Rhinoshaund III"
"@GarrySchofield6: I missed @JamiePeacock10's call because I was polishing my Golden Boot. How the hell was I supposed to know it was him calling?! #notpsychic"
'"
hahahaha Kapow!
Dont think Peacock has had a slap like that since Perry used his face as a punch bag
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| Richard, let's be honest, your defence of GS is dry reminiscent of David Brent's of Finchy. "He's thrown a kettle over a pub! What have you ever done?"
You say he is a good bloke and his heart is in the right place. That is a subjective view and cannot be conclusively disproven without going into the sort of forensic detail that no one can be .rsed with. However, the fact that so many fans of the team he played the majority of his career for have such a low opinion of him should set a few alarm bells off, no?
You asked for specific details of him talking for attention rather than to express an honestly held view. Unfortunately I lent my Collected Works of Garry Schofield to a friend and I won't be able to get up to the British Library till later. His comments on Leeds would seem to fall into this category - predict their demise continually and crow when like a broken clock the reality eventually matches the naysaying. And like G1 comments, tone as well as content is important. Quoting tone is difficult but everyone who has ever heard or read Garry Schofield knows from his tone that his priority is heat rather than light.
His most egregious crime for me as a non-Leeds fan is his attitude towards the game in London. Scepticism is perfectly valid. However he shows no interest in learning more about the complexity of the situation in London, the incredible development that has gone on at grassroots level and the reasons that has not been translated into a vibrant Broncos. He prefers ignorance as it makes it easier to garner praise from fellow anti-expansionists and attention from those frustrated by someone using his still big name in the game to advocate the abandonment of our most promising potential source of future players. No attempt to engage in the real debate, too much effort and the danger of being sidetracked towards being somewhere near reasonable.
JP could perhaps have chosen his words better and he would certainly have wished for a better result to back them up. But he has built a groundswell of repect in the game throughout his career, even from the majority of Bulls fans who saw him join our nearest rivals as their star rose and ours fell. Schofield has his admirers, much as Richard Littlejohn and his ilk have - "You tell it straight, couldn't agree with you more". But in the end he is who he is, says what he says and does what he does. And it's a shame.
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| Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"Garry Schofield OBE
@JamiePeacock10 well played tonight pal!
'"
Rather set himself up for a fall mr Peacock. Starting and argument with name calling on his way to the match. I don't particulary like Scholefield at all, and IMO he appears to have an axe to grind against Leeds. (that said you cannot argue with a lot with the most recent article he wrote!)
If my Peacock and Leeds don't like him the best course of action for me would be to ignore him, treat him like he doesn't exists and prove him wrong on the pitch. I think the approach taken by Peacock was the wrong one
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| Quote ="Richard_delariv"did any leeds player not? not a rhetorical question, i just can't remember anything other than it being totally one-sided. although far less one-sided than a few weeks later at old trafford when a certain no6 wasn't playing...'"
James Lowes was the only player who turned up in the 95 cup final. All the others were equally at fault.
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| Quote ="af"Richard, let's be honest, your defence of GS is dry reminiscent of David Brent's of Finchy. "He's thrown a kettle over a pub! What have you ever done?"
You say he is a good bloke and his heart is in the right place. That is a subjective view and cannot be conclusively disproven without going into the sort of forensic detail that no one can be .rsed with. However, the fact that so many fans of the team he played the majority of his career for have such a low opinion of him should set a few alarm bells off, no?
You asked for specific details of him talking for attention rather than to express an honestly held view. Unfortunately I lent my Collected Works of Garry Schofield to a friend and I won't be able to get up to the British Library till later. His comments on Leeds would seem to fall into this category - predict their demise continually and crow when like a broken clock the reality eventually matches the naysaying. And like G1 comments, tone as well as content is important. Quoting tone is difficult but everyone who has ever heard or read Garry Schofield knows from his tone that his priority is heat rather than light.
His most egregious crime for me as a non-Leeds fan is his attitude towards the game in London. Scepticism is perfectly valid. However he shows no interest in learning more about the complexity of the situation in London, the incredible development that has gone on at grassroots level and the reasons that has not been translated into a vibrant Broncos. He prefers ignorance as it makes it easier to garner praise from fellow anti-expansionists and attention from those frustrated by someone using his still big name in the game to advocate the abandonment of our most promising potential source of future players. No attempt to engage in the real debate, too much effort and the danger of being sidetracked towards being somewhere near reasonable.
JP could perhaps have chosen his words better and he would certainly have wished for a better result to back them up. But he has built a groundswell of repect in the game throughout his career, even from the majority of Bulls fans who saw him join our nearest rivals as their star rose and ours fell. Schofield has his admirers, much as Richard Littlejohn and his ilk have - "You tell it straight, couldn't agree with you more". But in the end he is who he is, says what he says and does what he does. And it's a shame.'"
The fact you'd like to try and disprove Garry is a good bloke, despite - just giving one example here - doing all that work for that kid who needed life-saving treatment recently, yet only admit JP could "perhaps" have not called him a fat slob and a coward for not answering a number he didn't recognise, highlight your agendas pretty conclusively!
"Perhaps"?! It's been 24 hours, and those comments are still there, nor has he apologised for them. And his tantrum has made at least 3 of today's newspapers.
My 'defence' of Garry is simply to ask what he's said in the past that has caused so much offence, because, as far as I can see, all he writes about that causes offence is to say 'player A isn't good enough to play for England', or 'player B is a poor stand-off, but a much better loose forward'. He's never personal either. As an example, if he wants to criticise Nigel Wood, he'll do so without referring to his weight, unlike others. Schoey keeps it to rugby league and rugby league only.
So, other than London, where I'd estimate 90% of fans would agree with him, you can't remember any examples of things he's written that have ed you off?
As for London, his argument has consistently been that the grassroots stuff is great, but that they don't deserve a Super League spot. Is that such a whacky viewpoint?
It boils down to this: rugby league people are thin skinned and don't take kindly to the likes of Schoey and Alex Murphy. In other sports, it's commonplace and they just get on with it. What JP and his generation have copped is a fraction of what British footballers, tennis players and cricketers come in for.
What you say about Leeds and their fans: he's tipped Leeds to win trophies more often than not in the last 5 years, he's heaped praise on many of their players as I've mentioned in their thread. But you're only willing to look at one side of the ledger! Why is that?
Unpopular with their fans? There may be a few on here who don't like him, and probably more who don't post on here, but he has well wishers every day, he signs autographs on a daily basis (never refused one unlike a few GB players of his generation!) and he gets great messages on twitter from Leeds fans. His unpopularity is a myth because you're basing it on a select minority.
Some Leeds fans booed Adrian Morley when he announced his Roosters deal in 2000, and some Leeds fans booed Iestyn Harris when the 1999 Cup-Winning team were paraded at Headingley a few years ago. What does that prove? Fans aren't always rational!
His punditry is superb as his ability to get people talking about rugby league. Far better that than the bland, sit-on-the-fence crap we get from most other players and ex-players who take the media shilling.
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The only people who saw Schofield and are capable of forgetting how bloody good he was are Wigan fans!
Stevo would love that vid: 'try something different...a little chip over'. Schoey was the ultimate master at it.
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The only people who saw Schofield and are capable of forgetting how bloody good he was are Wigan fans!
Stevo would love that vid: 'try something different...a little chip over'. Schoey was the ultimate master at it.
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| Quote ="Richard_delariv"...'"
You like him, Richard. I think we get that.
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Excellent clip. Truly world class player did it all in aus international and dispite no trothys great club player. Best player I ever saw. It's only people's modern options of him that stop him being a hall of fame'er which is tragic.
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Excellent clip. Truly world class player did it all in aus international and dispite no trothys great club player. Best player I ever saw. It's only people's modern options of him that stop him being a hall of fame'er which is tragic.
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| Quote ="G1"It's my honest recollection that Schoey talks about it in his book but it's a while since I've read it so I can't be certain. I'm relatively sure. He can always give us, via you, his version of how much the lack of a SL loyalty bonus effected him prior to that game. At the time, as a more rabid fan and less balanced than I am now it infuriated me. I went that day full of expectation and, as usual with Leeds that day, was gutted. To read later that a hero of mine was even thinking about money in the changing room infuriated me, the young idealist that I was.
Regardless, on refelection, I may well be biased against Gary. I've heard and witnessed too many negative tales (many from people within the confines of the dressing rooms) about his time in an infuriatingly dissapointing Leeds team that I may be guilty of dismissing what he says because it's him that is saying it. But to be fair, he brings a lot of that upon himself with much of his delivery. I might miss the odd salient point he makes because, frankly, his constant sniping and negativity, has turned me off listening to him. As a pundit, that is a failure on his part.
Doug Laughton was a very succesful coach with a track record of trophies, even during Wigan's dominant era. I often wonder why it was his mission from the outset to rid Leeds of Schofield and what a team we might have been had he done so.
Regardless, I digress again. In twenty years when I speak to my grandkids of Leeds greats and hero's and deeds it will be the Peacocks, Sinfields, McGuires, Burrows, Seniors, Harris's etc etc. Not Schofield. I doubt he will care but in reality he should. He should care that his legacy has been so tarnished for so, so many who used to worship him.'"
I'll never get into a debate with you on your opinions on him as a player and the team that he played in, as I fully respect what you say on it and fully respect the fact you presumably spent a fortune following them only to experience disappointment 99% of the time. Like all fans, you have your favourites and if GS isn't there, that's fair enough.
WRT Laughton though - you must also wonder what if David Ward had stayed, or what if someone else had come in. Irrespective of his poor relationship with his ex-captain, Laughton wasted a fortune at Leeds and can only be regarded as a failure. He brought trophies to Widnes, yes, but they paid a pretty penny for them. Leeds and Widnes have two things in common: they were both coached by Doug Laughton, and they were both on the financial brink not long after.
But we're digressing. A point I noticed on the other thread is that you and others think he was an individual selfish player. The same accusation was thrown at Iestyn Harris too when this forum was debating whether Leeds should re-sign him from Wales. Isn't it the case that - unlike anyone in the 2004-2011 side, where the talent was more evenly spread - Garry and Iestyn were head and shoulders above anyone else in a playmaking capacity. Wityhout either player in their respective teams, I reckon Leeds would have languished in mid-table, or worse, as they did in 1996, the only season between 1987 and 2001 that neither played for Leeds.
Apologies for introducing Iestyn to the debate. Fully willing to acknowledge that you were proved completely righy in that argument!
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| Quote ="af"...'"
You don't like him, Andrew. I think we get that.
[size=50Least my argument is backed up...[/size
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| in your opinion yes
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| As a non Leeds fan but regular reader of league express I've been somewhat non plussed with the nature of his columns lately, especially the Kevin Brown issue a few weeks ago. His column now seems to be criticize then point and go "see see" kicking people when they're down.
It reminds me of that episode of Alan partridge where he's being interviewed about his book Bouncing Back, which seems to mainly consist of anecdotes cruelly laughing at the misfortunes of celebrities that he doesn't like.
"Needless to say, I had the last laugh"
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| Quote ="Richard_delariv"You don't like him, Andrew. I think we get that.
Least my argument is backed up...'"
Yup, that kettle didn't throw itself.
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| I have no paticular side to take in this, I think both sides of the argument are making decent points. It's all down to opinion at the end of the day. Personally I've always liked Schoey, a lot of the stuff he says in the media goes over my head tbh.
P.S. af - Professor in charge of watching Countdown every day? Haha
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| Quote ="G1" Not that he was alone, but, I don't recall him doinganything at all of note that day.'"
Perhaps not the most reliable of witness statements to gain a conviction with then?
As it happens/happened there was an incident involving Schofield that at the time (rather than 17 years after the event) was described as the possible turning point in the match when Leeds were trailing 2 - 6.
I don't think anyone (including the player involved) thought it would have changed the ultimate result as Wigan dominated the match from that point onwards anyway as Leeds put in arguably their worst performance in months but it was a contentious decision, IIRC made by our old adversary Russell Smith.
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| Schofield's CV as a world class RL player is a matter of public record. I would suggest, that the only player currently playing in SuperLeague who may also achieve some comparability is Tomkins. And that will be only after he's tested himself in the NRL.
Certainly, no one in our current squad comes within a country mile of the Garry Schofield of 20 years ago.
More's the pity
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| here's one to brew over.
Was schofield lucky he played 20 years ago and not in the modern game? would he have been anywhere near as effective (and/or stand out) against the modern straight defensive line filled with extremely fit athletes.
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| I've not done all 7 pages from this thread due to the time of night and a few beers imbibed but here's my two'penneth on Schoey. Whether he's just been honest or trying to be controversial to justify his column in League Express is open to debate. I personally think he has an opinion and is honest in what he says. Where he is different and therefore more vulnerable than other pundits is in his total honesty. Every other pundit in the press or on TV talks the biggest load of dishonest bollards just to stay in a job. "What do you think to Leeds current position then ?" (Eddie Hemmings), "Well they've too many good players to be in this position for long" (Phil Clarke, Paul Cullen, John Wells, Shaun Mcrae, Stevo,etc,etc). Yeah right, 11 games to go and we'll be lucky to make the top 6. Schofield is honest and people don't like it, is that really a crime ? Dishonesty is unfortunately a human trait, most pundits are bare faced liars. None of them say what they really think in case they rock the boat and upset somebody.
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| Whether Schofield's opionons are determinedly ramped up for the purposes of his pundit career or not is open to debate. Whichever, to me his black or white views of the world are just not credible and should not count as reasoned or insightful analysis of any form. People can say he proved himself at the top level therefore his opinions carry weight - but I disagree. Life is full of nuance and he doesn't IMO have the intelligence to provide much insight. His "I'm right, you're wrong" view of the world proved, in the end, to be a disaster for his playing career and, no doubt, was hardly helpful when he tried to become a coach.
It may, however, be useful box office for League Express; but then that tells you all you need to know about how far that publication's standards have fallen since its progressive and thoughtful early days.
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| Quote ="Richard_delariv"that's not relevant because he doesn't want to work for Sky, although he knows full well he'd never be asked. his opinion is that to work for them you have to tow the party line and he doesn't want a bar of that. He criticises the pundits like we all do, and he's got as much right as anyone to do that.'"
he sees himself as a straightalking oracle of the people but broadcast media want nothing to do with him because in a live environment he struggles to get his simplistic views across, let alone provide any form of justification or debate
its just another post career aspect of the game that he isn't upto, along with coaching and administrating ... which is why he comes across as he does
(of course there is room for a colour commentator in the sky line up ... they employ the biggest buffoon of the lot, but one who is capable of 3 live broadcasts per week if required)
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| Quote ="Matt23"P.S. af - Professor in charge of watching Countdown every day? Haha'"
Watching that episode now, painfully well-observed. Finchy is of course a Leeds fan, natch.
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| What's the latest with this ? any news ?
Saw Schoey at Cas on Sunday and he was having a laugh at Peacock's expense.
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| Quote ="miscreant"What's the latest with this ? any news ?
Saw Schoey at Cas on Sunday and he was having a laugh at Peacock's expense.'"
If that is the case then I agree with all the people calling Schoey a bitter person
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| I'm reminded of Brian McDermott's comments that some players are more interested in their mobile phones and new tattoos than improving their performance. Maybe that shouldn't have been directed at just the younger element of the squad.
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