GCHQ are currently recruiting.
You ought to apply.
You'll be a shoe-in.

Absolute rubbish even at their most successful when winning the Cup at Twickers the crowds weren't flocking to Headingley nor were there when players like Justin Marshell were signed it's a myth.

Perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part but as usual your bias against Union means you miss the point. Leeds have never had a squad remotely capable of competing against the top sides and getting into the lucrative European cup games and so have never attracted the sort of attendances available. Had this happened the crowds would have matched or overtaken the Rhinos. Yorkshire has a large network of Union clubs with large junior sections with lots of parents.

If the right quality of players were playing in a successful top of the table side then many of the Rhinos fans base would watch both teams and Union fans are prepared to travel for the right team. For example Wasps were unable to find a replacement stadium in the capital and relocated to Coventry where they average 14,000 and this is in the back yard of Leicester who average 22,000.

My point about needing a larger shared stadium is that there is an opportunity in the North to stage some of the bigger matches in both League and Union to bring in extra income while reducing costs for each club but both clubs need to be successful and one not a drain on the other.

Anyway this was an aside in my post and not a main point.

YCCC has been going longer than any sports club in the region & purports to represent the entire county yet it struggles (except for the T20 games vs Lancs) to get 5 figure crowds to any other one day format games.
Therefore, it is no surprise that the Leeds based RU team cannot achieve such crowds.
Leeds RU side has had national premiership success when it won the national KO cup a few years back but that did not lead to crowds approaching the size that JC imagined.
It seems to me that parochialism is entrenched in the local RU community & that is what has stymied any progress that Caddick & GH hoped would ensue the RU side.
Calling the club Yorkshire further alienated potential supporters.
Look at the crowds that the Newcastle Falcons get after a prolonged period in the premiership.
RL remains a northern "working class" sport. RU is largely a midlands & southern based middle & upper class sport.
The north/south divide is as real in rugby as it is in political & economic matters.

I have no bias against RU once again because someone disagrees you "assume" it's because of some imagined agenda.
Yer dreaming mate under its most successful run the Leeds RU simply didn't attract the crowds nor did having a side containing Springbok & All Black legends.
As for your assumption that many of the Rhinos fanbase would watch a top RU side again yer way off as proven by the lack off big attendences when at their previous best.

I agree with what rhino-mark is saying on the history, it wasn't what the yorkshire public wanted to see and didn't work out. However, I would hazard a guess that if it was repeated now, and although it pains me to say it, I think the Union side in a similar situation to previous would probably prove a success. There is no doubt that the attitude of a lot of dyed in the wool league fans has changed over the last few years towards union. And whilst our own game, and our own club, continues to dwindle as a product, the union game continues to gain.

Still not listening are you? I clearly said if Leeds had recruited a top of the table side getting European cup fixtures and that had this happened they would now be getting the crowds in. Leeds have never had this sort of side full of internationals like the current top four. You are basing you views on Leeds Carnegies somewhat second rate history of ten years ago.

What sort of attendance numbers were they doing when they were in the top flight and winning the Powergen cup?

You cannot compare cricket with rugby. Leeds Union sides have never had the necessary quality that I mentioned which would would need to include plenty of internationals like the current top four. As I said had we had a quality side and competed at the top and in Europe the crowds would have dramatically increased.

Do not underestimate the strength of Union in the north at club level with just over 100 flourishing clubs in Yorkshire where the game has been played since before 1869. They have won the county championship 15 times and been finalists 23 times the first in 1889 and the last in 2008. International touring sides have been visits the county since 1888 but sadly the lack of a suitable venue has seen this decline in recent years. Yorkshire and the north has been one of the strongest regions for producing rugby talent that become internationals. Caddick has invested about £9 million in Union in Leeds which is a little over half of that at either Newcastle and Sale and well below the top teams. So the reasons the crowds have been small is because the product is not good enough not because there are not enough Union fans in the region.

I'm there, cheers

Go through that Squad that won the Cup there were plenty of internationals including at one point one of the All Black greats in Justin Marshall throw in Balshaw & Sneyman etc if that team wasn't attracting crowds which included a Trophy then i'll stick with what i put history PROVES as such.
Coulda woulda shoulda doesn't prove jack.

Union is very much a working class sport in Wales

But nowhere close to it in England, Scotland or Ireland.

Bristol, Gloucester, Cornish Pirates (Penzance), Plymouth, Doncaster, Connaught, etc... not working class union clubs? Ooookay then.



Herein lies the problem, quite a few League fans have an elitist attitude which aside from being ignorant at times causes the sport to be quite needlessly isolationist to its own detriment. There are plenty of things which could aid both codes such as the dual registration of players? League structure needs to be changed as well alongside better coverage (much like the second tier of Union in England).

How many of these were current internationals at the time? Marshall could hardly run when at Leeds. Still avoiding the point that Leeds Union sides have never had the class or strength in depth to be a top 4 side and if they had and maintained it they would now be packing them in as Union has overtaken Superleague.

its all supposition and guess work. it may or it may not. until, or if, it happens, we'll have to go on the only proof and that's the pathetic attendances they had when they were in the top league last time

It is all only opinion in any case. However there is no proof to go on to make a case against my point as Leeds have never met the criteria that I said they needed to do.

A very working class game in much of the southwest (or used to be at any rate). Bath is the exception, not the rule.

<Edit> Hadn't spotted Rinkadink's post when I wrote the above. He's right.

Indeed. Just because millionaires played it at boarding school doesn't make it elitist. I played all across the midlands during the 80's, Bedford, Northampton, Leicester. All classes, all backgrounds. The likes of Olney were as rough as any amateur RL side.


I also have to partly agree with Juan about Leeds Carnegie. The last time they challenged at club level seriously the club game was in a bit of a state in general. It hadn't really taken off and there were clubs struggling after the first wave of professional blowouts (E.g. Richmond). That Leeds team was nothing special and the momentum wasn't sustained.
However, I'm not sure about the market for it in Yorkshire. It would need a significant cash injection to handle a 7 million salary cap. The likes of Wasps lose 2-3 million a year at the moment. It's too risky.
If they intend to play at HQ then a plastic pitch would be first on the agenda also.

I agree about the pitch and while I also agree about the risk I think there has been a big momentum shift in the last couple of seasons where now top level a Union is an entertaining product for fans and sponsors. Yorkshire and the North must be able to support a genuine star studded successful side and Leeds offer the unique set up for dual code top signings.

I think that's the optimist side, not necessarily inaccurate though. Would need a long term investment of serious money, certainly more than Caddick is prepared to spend.

As Juan says top level Union may be entertaining but one of the major probs for tykes/Carnegie is the complete lack of it from the games I have seen over past few seasons. They will never attract decent crowds without a decent brand of rugby, it may work down south but we expect more for our money up here.

Maybe there's an Odsal move on the cards for Carnegie.

If marketed correctly, the immense undercurrent of RU supporters of Yorkshire will flock in their droves.

Not sure Headingley was the best place to build up the social side of the game either. Play there by all means once crowds have grown but 3 or 4k just made the place seem bleak. A startling contrast with, say, Newcastle who have also struggled for crowds at times but whose smaller ground is somehow much more welcoming.