Have they? Where?

Gareth in 2004 the club were on the crest of potentially having a dynasty what happened poor recruitment meant it took a genius coach - in your view - another three years to reach the title, and the team never reached the level of 2004 - so that was a good decision in your view?

I think GH loves the game and wants to see it prosper - did Wigan winning everything really prosper the game - do you think he wants to be responsible for a decline in interest in the game because his side wins everything?

The team are not playing well and have not played well all year - the squad is weaker than in the previous two years - how many companies do you know that actually weaken the quality of the personnel and prosper - you have to question who is responsible for that.

So you would have Sinfield as your captain until he stopped playing regardless - perhaps change would be a good thing. Do you think Peacock would make a worse captain? do you think he would less respect from his fellow team mates?

McClennan is a very good coach a better coach than Smith IMO - I have never said he is the best Leeds coach ever - I think Francis will never be eclipsed in my lifetime - but some of us a realists and you have question the coach as well as the players the coach cannot be immune from critisism that is the way of things. They do well they get the praise if things don't go well they should also get the questions - hopefully he will show his metal and things will improve.

As I said earlier I think they will give Huddersfield a serious beating and they will reach the GF. You on the other hand would are happy to overlook Smith faults - at least on here

and point to his record as the be all and end all - what I find odd is McClennan's record is equal to that of Smith at the same stage of their tenure - yet you seem incapable of applying the same criteria to McClennan - also McClennan's stats for 2008 were significantly better than Smith's for 2007 with virtually the same players - another fact lost in your hero worship of Smith.

You have consistently bagged McClennan almost from day one because he is not the hard b@stard that Smith was - the worst thing that happened to you was Leeds winning the 2008 GF - you would have had field day if they had lost and as I have said before if they win the 2009 GF you really will be between a rock and a hard place



Even if they were to win the 2009 GF this team needs breaking up and another great team building - you only have to look at Saints and ask why are they have been consistently at the top of SL for 15 years because they have had three distinct sides during the SL era - if you want to stay at the top that ruthlessness is what is needed.

Eccleshill, you make some good points, and some ones that I don't agree with, but suggesting that Gary Hetherington doesn't want Leeds to win this season for the good of the game is just wrong.

David I love your conspiracy theories but to think GH doesn't want Leeds to be successful is

We won two out of the next four Grand Finals. How high were your expectations?

david,

I have always said I hoped Mclennan would go on to eclipse Smith. I still hope he does. I still think he might. I have written anybody off this year.

What irks me is the hypocritical way people on here judge McLennan compared to how they judged Smith.

Oh and yes. Sinfield would be my captain until he retires. I'd imagine his team mates feel the same way, including JP.

I think it might be along the lines of winning enough to shut Stirlingshire Saint up permenantly. But there simply aren't that many trophies in all of World sport for that.

I think Eccleshill Rhino is correct, we need to break up the team, just like Alex Ferguson sold Giggs, O'Shea, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes etc. Like Saints sold Cunningham, Long, Wellens, Gardner, Roby etc.

For us to be successful again lets sell Webb, Smith, McGuire, Burrow & Sinfield.

The very least Sinfield deserves for his recent games not being played to his usual high standard is to be stripped of the captaincy - just to restore his confidence.

Gareth you are just as hypocritical about McClennan as I have said his record stands comparison to Smith in any way you want but you do not judge McClennan as you do Smith.

You never critisised Smith and times his decisions were poor and performances were dire yet you consistently bag McClennan - that is hypocritical even you have to admit that?

Interest in RL had reached a real low during the Wigan era - that is bad for business - nobody wants a foregone conclusion - I personally think GH would make a great bossman for RL his love for the game in unparralled in the UK.

I never once said he did not want Leeds to be successful - winning everything would give a certain success on the field but not to the business as a whole.

Why do Leeds have Cummins, Poaching, McDermott on the coaching staff because they are the best available - no because GH is loyal to those that have been loyal to him - is that long term proposition? not sure I would want McDermott in charge of some of my most valuable commidities!!!

If you were Alex Ferguson do you think he would have Beckham in charge of youth development or an experienced coach/manger with a proved track record?

If Leeds win the comp reasonably regularly then that is a good thing winning it every year is not. Unless he failed to learn from his mistakes - and he doesn't seem like that to me - why would he commit the same error as 2004?

David Cummins has now been a number 2 for several years if he wasn't up to the jobI'm sure he'd have been moved on as I'm sure Poching and McDermott will be also if they prove they are not up to it also.
Who would you have as the number 2 ?

I don't think that's correct. The late 70's and early 80's were dire in regards to gate numbers. They were in growth all during the late 80's and early 90's. We were also very competitive internationaly and really should have beaten the Aussies in 90 and 92.
As an emblem for the game nationaly Wigan lifted the profile of League and did a lot for the product (which is good for everybody). I was extremely proud of my sport when Wigan turned up to the Middlesex Sevens and destroyed everyone in spectacular fashion. They helped trnasform the image of League and set things up for Superleague.
I don't want a situation where there is no salary cap as some clubs (including ours) got in the poop trying to spend as much as Wigan, but could a period of 3-4 years of near total Leeds dominance be bad for the game? I think not. I don't think it's possible due to the cap but I can't see how it could hurt the game agt all.

When we move the ball we look ok, We are playing a lot down middle and nowhere near as expansive as before , We are also giving away far too many penalties away

We must agree to differ

A young coach from Australia who has seen the Aussies coaching methodology and conditioning techniques who can bring some new ideas who would be less familiar with the players - in the past that would have been a Jason Taylor or Steven Kearney.

Ah, an Australian. Because nobody in this country would have a clue how they train down under.

Don't you think a number 2 should be the one who is famiiar with the players because I do?

So the team Ferguson had when he first won the title included the likes of Beckham, Giggs etc not it didn't, how many of the Beckham Giggs are still playing 2/3 Ferguson has had 4 different sides since his time at Man U look at the serious players he has moved on - Stamp, Cole, Beckham, Butt the goal scorer they sold to Real Madrid can't remember his name etc etc

For us to be successful again lets standstill do nothing - whilst other clubs pass us by - why not good plan that!!

So if Sinfield continues his poor form you keep selecting him and let he be captain - great stuff!!!

If they did our players would be as fit and strong as the Australians something which has been proved not to be the case for many years now - so it would appear we do lack the knowledge of how to prepare our players correctly both physically and technically. Only a fool would suggest the training methods in SL are anywhere near the level in the NRL.

You saw the world cup do you honestly believe we are anywhere near the level of the Aussies or the Kiwis?

Look at the 2 most successful coaches in recent SL history where did they come from GB - how many British coaches have won a GF - 2 how many Aussies/Kiwis!!!

No not at all - the coaches should coach and the players play if you blur that you have problems. Reserve grade coaching is a different matter then I would agree with you because that is about identifying those with potential and nuturing them to their potential.

Gave away less than Salford did yesterday and still couldn't beat the City Slickers.

Aussie / Kiwis = 7

GB = 4

Up until the last three seasons it was 4 a piece.

The standard of British coaches is the equivilent of the standard of the British game - poor.

Maybe this goes to show why a coach roundly accepted as been tactically naive in the NRL has ripped it up in ESL, yes step forward Nathan Brown.

True but my point was about OUR conceeded penalties mate, Far too many and then leads to threads about poor refs etc, Sure Smith had a fine policy for giving away penalties ( could be wrong )

Just to point out the small logic slip amidst all that pontificating there - Bluey is from where?
So why do we need to sack three guys who are obviously doing the job their employers want just employ a f******g Australian of some description.