I agree that I don't think they would have but if they'd beaten Wales they'd have gone through to the knock out stage and you just never know. What I was meaning really is that sometimes the difference between success and failure can be slim. Look at Wigan this year. They were 2 tries away from what I think would have been a deserved double. The England team in Italia 90 were one goal away from going out in the group stage and went on to be an iconic team and a couple of penalties away from a World Cup final.

While England RU don't sound to have been that convincing I do think things have been blown out of proportion a little and as a result for once I think the only winner has been RL.

I understand your point but those are the margins that separate winners and losers at the top level. The All Blacks have won many games in added time where any mistake ends the match. They won the previous WC final by 1 point. How many tight games do the top sporting sides seem to just win? Leeds do it far too often for it to be just probability. It's at the moments when you need to make something happen or dig in that the great teams perform.
In the case of England they should have been competitive. We have some very good players, they're fit and they were playing at their home ground. In fact they didn't even need to beat Wales - a draw (which was possible until Robshaw blundered) wound have seen the through. But they blew it. They also blew out against Australia. But if you look back through Lancaster's tenure that has been a characteristic of this England side. Blowing out in big games, particularly in the 6 nations which Lancaster never won in 4 attempts.

As sad as I am when we loose our "stars" to the NRL, I'd rather they make the trip down under than go to yawnion. Those of us who remember all the predjudice we were dealt by RU in days gone by is still fresh in the memory. I didn't watch any of the Rugby (Yawnion) World Cup. Glad that Sam is back (I LMFAO every time a league convert dosen't cut it, but I don't think it will put them off poaching others).

I think after the game yesterday we ought to stop calling it Yawnion. The irony police will have to start making arrests.

Hard to make a case against on the evidence presented.

cuts both ways, Wales leaked most of it star players in the 80/90s to league, Quinell,Gibbs, Bateman, J davies, to name four, we cant complain when some go the other way for the money as thats exactly what the above did,

My sentiments too. As someone who over the years has been entertained and thrilled by the classy skills of those star recruits from Union such as Lewis Jones, David Watkins and others including the ones you name above I have no problem with players that seek to try the other code. To believe otherwise would not just be hypocritical of me but would have been to disagree with a policy that so enriched our sport.

arguably before his recent multiple concussions which seem to have affected his game somewhat the biggest star in welsh rugby was george North, he left scarlets for Northampton for the money, he is ideal for league as he combines pace and power, he reminds me of John Bevan and i,m positive that 20 years ago or less he would be a wigan/saints/widnes/leeds player by now and said club would be overjoyed with the acquisition, money talks, always has always will

I don't disagree with that, but as an RL fan I'm glad Burgess is back in the game. He is the perfect modern-day RL forward (a few dropped balls aside).

This is a good read www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... -t-it.html

This is a good read www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... -t-it.html

Quote ="Joshheff90"This is a good read www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... -t-it.html'" As you say a good read, thanks for posting the link. Interesting take on events and personalities, he seems to rate Lancaster and the England training set up very highly. He does a good job of defending his time in Union and his performance in the WC and is candid about his reasons for deciding to come back to RL. Perhaps not unexpectedly, he steers a course calculated to offend no one, almost a piece scripted by a PR type. One thing that seems very clear to me is that no English club had a chance of signing him, the pull of Aus and family saw to that.

Quote ="Joshheff90"This is a good read www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... -t-it.html'" As you say a good read, thanks for posting the link. Interesting take on events and personalities, he seems to rate Lancaster and the England training set up very highly. He does a good job of defending his time in Union and his performance in the WC and is candid about his reasons for deciding to come back to RL. Perhaps not unexpectedly, he steers a course calculated to offend no one, almost a piece scripted by a PR type. One thing that seems very clear to me is that no English club had a chance of signing him, the pull of Aus and family saw to that.

I Hoped sam would succeed at bath and also with England , unfortunately certain journalists and ex players took great pride in deriding his selection. The crowning glory was in last Sunday times by Stephen Jones who stating how technical Union is and Sam was never able to grasp the game.
Presumably you need a first class degree from Oxbridge to play for England. His closing words in the article and I quote,'burgess was absolutely shocking ' what an utter disgraceful statement from a so called reputed journalist.
Jones along with Stuart Barnes has form with constant anti league jibes. Apparently only Jason Robinson and Ashton have made the grade according to them.
One player who springs to mind who they never mention and is successful in crossing over is Stephen Myler. He has won many a game for Northampton with his tactical and goal kicking.

There are narrow minded people riding the coat tails of both codes, some of them write crap for the Times to make their living. Most Union fans recognise the deranged mutterings against SB for what it is, Bull Poop

There is one question though that Burgess might find uncomfortable to answer, what if he hadn't been selected for the WC squad? What if Luther Burrell had gotten the nod. Would Burgess have gone back to Souths?
He has some defence at the moment, a disastrous performance by the hosts, criticism flying in from every angle, a lot of it at his selection. The entire England management will be getting binned with the prospect of a less sympathetic regime coming in, and he is looking at being played at 6 fir Bath while he clearly saw his only future for England at centre.
But if he hadn't been selected in the first place then most of that wouldn't be a factor.

From some of the things in that article you could easily get the impression that he never intended to play Union past the WC (unless say England won it and he became a Union superstar).

Just a thought.

Mike Ford proving that if you spend long enough with pricks (the RFU) you eventually become one.
Hopefully his pathetic actions will mean top RL players won't go anywhere near any club he's involved with and his career dies as quick a death as his credibility and reputation.

No I definitely get that impression. He clearly only went to play for England, not Bath, hence no kind words for them like he has for Lancaster.

Ford has come out of this looking like a lovelorn girl who believed the guy she was seeing really loved her and promised her the world when really he was just using her for sex. Now she realises that, she calls the guy a c*nt.

I have no sympathy with Ford in targeting RL players, but I can understand why he's bitter. He has been made to look an idiot by Burgess, probably on the basis that until almost the very end Burgess didn't tell him to his face that he was determined to leave. As a result Ford made some now daft-sounding comments to the media about how Burgess was going to stay. On top of that Ford has lost someone he saw as a key player in the middle of the season. Burgess' leaving would probably have a similar effect to when SBW walked out on the Dogs mid season in terms of its impact on the team and morale amongst the players.

Whilst some of the anti-Burgess bile is OTT, its quite clear that Sam saw the RUWC as his objective, and becoming a star on a big stage. He had no appetite for sticking around in RU once he realised he was likely to be stuck playing club rugby for a couple of years at least. Whilst that message (and the anti-Burgess bile) may help other RL players stay with RL, IMO Burgess doesn't come out of this squeaky clean by any means.

I tend to agree with DHM - had Burgess not been picked for England I think we could have seen him return far earlier.

Quote ="Him"Mike Ford proving that if you spend long enough with pricks (the RFU) you eventually become one. Hopefully his pathetic actions will mean top RL players won't go anywhere near any club he's involved with and his career dies as quick a death as his credibility and reputation.'" His Lad's also had a dig at him too www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... mates.html

Quote ="Him"Mike Ford proving that if you spend long enough with pricks (the RFU) you eventually become one. Hopefully his pathetic actions will mean top RL players won't go anywhere near any club he's involved with and his career dies as quick a death as his credibility and reputation.'" His Lad's also had a dig at him too www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... mates.html

Quote ="Genehunt1973"His Lad's also had a dig at him too www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... mates.html'" Lol at George Ford giving Burgess advice on hard work. The little sh|tbag.

Quote ="Genehunt1973"His Lad's also had a dig at him too www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... mates.html'" Lol at George Ford giving Burgess advice on hard work. The little sh|tbag.

This'll be the George Ford who left Leicester to join Bath just so he could be with his Dad, completely missing the point about family loyalty being stronger than club loyalty then?

Let's not forget Mike ford walked out on League to go get a better pay day in Union....

I don't see a problem with that. I don't think he made a secret out of wanting to play on the big stage which for a player of his pedigree is a reasonable ambition. This also shows that he didn't make the move for just the money. I also think it shows he knew and understood his best and quickest route to the England team was at 12 so he was not too happy to be switched to 6 by Ford as this greatly slowed down his experience and education as a centre. This would appear to have soured his relationship with Ford.

I do not think he only went for the RUWC and having made the squad he would have expected a long Union international career as he would only improve as he became more experienced. After the team played so badly his selection became the focal point of blame from a certain predictable group of anti League hacks and envious former players. So realising his planned International Union career had been unfairly thwarted in the short/medium term brought an about turn from Sam.

Although he fairly can be accused of letting down his club teammates by leaving at short notice I think he had good reasons to do so and he made the right decision for his own career

England 25 Wales 18 when Sam Burgess replaced by yes you've guessed it..George Ford. Wales win by 3..who gets the blame Sam Burgess..say no more!!

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This is the highest rated comment from the article you posted.Couldn't agree more.