Sorry but not a chance. Calderwood was the best winger I have seen at Leeds. He blew it though. Could have being an absolute legend. All his fault though.

Not for me. Yes he was good, but taking the whole package and all the problems he brings would prefer BJB in the team to calderwood

You can't slate Hall for defence just a few weeks ago and then say Cslderwood was the best winger you've seen at Leeds. He couldn't tackle for sh*t.

If the bit about Hampshire joining Saints turns out to be true then it'll be meltdown time on the Wigan board, I couldn't imagine a worse scenario !!!

I know you were late supporting Leeds, but unsure how late, and if later than his time. Calderwood was a brilliant defender, and no winger has come close to his kick chase pressure. Not sure where you get that about defence.

But anyway I simply gave my own opinion on the standing of BJB, and this thread is about him.


Edit: just looked back at his last season stats here. 154 tackles and 12 misses. Show me a winger who matches that. In comparison to Hall that you brought up, last season Hall did 75 tackles and 29 misses. The difference in the tackles is mainly down to the brilliant use of his fantastic kick chase.

You gave your own opinion about him.....then introduced Calderwood to the thread. It's going to be like the Bailey thread again lol.

Mark Calderwood defender par excellence.....you're reaching new depths.

BTW, 1997 and yes his kick chase was good but then again it takes more than one good area to make a winger.....note Hall and making strong metres

I am not getting into a childish tit for tat. You said he couldn't tackle for sh*t, and told me I can't critisize Hall for defence and say Calderwood was good.

Not for the first time you were shown up as wrong, get over it sometimes we all get something wrong. I gave you the facts of Calderwood, then showed you the equivalent defense stats of who you compared to. Further I sAid show me a winger that matches those.

You won't find one, as you were wrong again. Anyone can have their own opinion on who was good, who was preferred, who is better, and all are entitled to this. As I said Calderwood ruined his career by the choices he made, and it didn't stop us moving on in the right way. But someone cluelessly saying that a players defence was Sh*t despite all evidence to the contrary is just quite embarrassing, especially when their response is not sticking to the point.

And for the benefit of back to the point of this thread. The loss of such a good player as Calderwood and the fact it didn't cause a problem for us shows how the loss of such another good player as BJB shouldn't also. And Both players were homegrown.

Blunderwood on his day was excellent, I remember a try at Wigan which was world class, but he never full filled his potential, going to Wigan did not help him. BJB is much more solid player and over season I think BJB is a better option.

BJB, hall, bai, briscoe,donald are all better than calderwood was

Real shame BJB is leaving. Thought he was a better full back than a winger and that that would be where he would blossom for Leeds. Turns out Zak got ahead of him for the number 1 spot and Briscoe is a step up as a winger. Shame in a way because I thought he added an attacking dimension and something a bit different to our current outstanding crop of backs. I wonder if he refused to sign long term after or before he knew Briscoe was coming and whether that drove his decision or whether his refill to sing drove Leeds's decision to sign Briscoe?

And the difference is, I won't tell you that you can't say that, as that is your opinion to hold.

And I am pretty sure that come the end of Hall and briscoes Leeds careers, my opinion may also change.

i don't dislike calderwood. his kick chase was probably better than the ones i named. however overall my picks are better all round imo

Calderwood was good in his environment at leeds, playing in a team that created alot of clear try scoring opportunities (with space, rather than tight angles), but like alot of players over the last decade he went downhill pretty fast after leaving leeds.

Crackers.

Cuckoo cuckoo.

Ahem!!

Back on topic, Clearly BJB wants to play fullback and will probably sign for the team that promises him the number one shirt. I can't see him going to a lower club so who is there left to promise him fullback. Most clubs seem to have number 1 sorted for nxt season, but as has already been mentioned the goons aren't (though Bowen has already said he wants another year). I personally see him going to union, honestly I would be happy with that esp if Leeds get promoted try and keep him in the greatest city in the north!!!!

Ahem! Greatest city in the world pal.

Intriguing that you say stats prove it when in recent games for certain players you've claimed stats can be misleading (when it's shown them to have done better than you originally claimed) and you prefer to go on what you see with your eyes.

I'd take Hall over Calderwood every day of the week and Donald proved to be a more than good enough replacement.

Do those same stats show someone as not only an excellent defender, but a level others are not close to, despite someone saying they can't tackle for sh*t?

No, thought not. Accept it was a wrong statement to make, just move on, it's easy. Your perfectly entitled to your own opinion on who you were think was good or bad, just claiming something not the case gets picked up.

And I havent't claimed stats can be misleading. That might be your interpretation.

The stats show that missed tackles are always a funny issue.

Looking at total team stats it has Leeds as only missing 468 that whole year of 2005 from 28 league games yet we've apparently missed 341 from just 12 games this year and only 57 tackles behind what 8th placed Salford managed (39icon_cool.gif the whole of that season allegedly even thought they shipped nearly 30 points a game on average.

Apparently London only missed 289 tackles the whole of 2003 whereas the two Grand Finalists Wigan and Bradford missed around 700.

Anybody find 154 tackles for ANY winger in a year a suspicious and questionable number, especially for a winger who played in a team that dominated so many games in terms of possession and field position.

Still can't accept you were wrong. That's stubbornness for you. Did you refuse to eat you veggies as a kid too?

Leeds have missed loads of tackles this year. It's purely the scrambelling and cover that's maintained our lines.

Nearly as many as Salford did in 16 more games in 2005? Do you honestly believe we've already missed over 50 tackles more in just 12 games than London managed in 28 games in 2003? Bless you for blindly sticking by obviously flawed numbers.

What's that about stubbornness again?

So all these arguments you have had where you have quoted stats to make your point. Do you accept they were actually wrong all along also?

I mean, we all know about the time you quoted your own made up ones, but what about the others?

And we are on about 2005, not 2003.

Depends on the category involved, 'Missed Tackles' are always a more grey area compared to more clearer ones.



Did I quote them? Didn't I just list some where I made an error which I admitted to......maybe you could learn something from that, even your protector Tvoc did, took him 6 weeks but finally got there,



You mentioned 2005 I mentioned it also and showed it looked massively flawed. I also mentioned another year which I'm free to do.....but I forgot in a Gotcha argument you're not allowed to introduce your own areas which he doesn't like. Even though it's highlights perfectly how flawed the 'Missed Tackles' category is and has been.

Sorry I didn't explain properly, I meant the northern Galaxy