I can read yes thanks, I can also differentiate between the words 'been and 'being'. You still haven't replied to my post yesterday.

Do you still believe the officials deserve a long ban?

*guffaw*

As you have clearly proven you can't read, then I obviously need to point it out.

I said "Official". So when pulling people up on grammar, etc, get your own house in order first.

Well, 4 pages in & I've been waiting for Wheels or Nantwich Exile, but not a peep.
Tuilagi.

And Ashton didn't go down. So, nothing quite like Senior and Mather.

Not for me. I'm with Gotcha on this aspect. Ashton doesn't raise his arms. There's no biff, there's just an assault. Had Ashton thrown some back, that is biff and that is fine. The second punch shouldn't have been thrown and the third was way out of order. It's clear Tuilagi wanted to make his mark on Ashton from the off the ball challenge through to the assault. It's clear Ashton wanted no part of it.

Where I do not agree with Gotcha is on his over reaction to the officials.

And by official of course you meant linesman rather than referee. Lovely backtrack.

Still the question stands, do you believe the [size=200official[/size deserves a long ban for following disciplinary procedures to the tee?



Meh, my only gripe is Gotcha's ridiculously bad levels of comprehension for the use of the words 'been' and 'being'.

Absolutely.

Should be interesting over the next year or so when they start lining up in the same England side...

The whole incident looks worse in slow motion.

As for the original "high" tackle that started it, the ball was passed in Ashton direction (but got deflected off the defenders arms I think) and Tuilagi made a clumsy reaction tackle, bit like some of Brent Webbs. It's not like he was lining him up and intended to take his head off. He shouldn't have done it though and should have been penalised for it.

What was Ashton expecting Tuilagi to do when he pushed him though?

Compare this to the Moore - Webb incedent a few weeks ago when punches were thrown at the PTB in what should have been in full view of all the officials and no on field action was taken.

Wasn't this a rugby union issue?

Absolutley agree.

With regards to the assault though maybe he feared he would be subject to an attack and just did a pre emptive strike to defend himself



probably fit the bailey incident with odonnell better but if that had happened in a street with some big lump charging 20m towards you I am sure that a pre emptive strike defence could have been used. You don't have to wait to be hit to defend yourself

Maybe the first one, but not sure he'd get away with the second two.

Agreed. No place for it in the game. I can't believe he didn't get a straight red for that.

You answered perfectly why he got a yellow!

Also, the raising arms thing is a matter of judgement. He doesn't keep them by his sides does he. They're lifted some will think in a pathetic attempt to throw a punch, others will think to block, other will think neither of the above. It's a matter of judgement.

The official is called a Touch Judge or Assistant Referee



This was not just a bit of biff. It was a violent assault by one player on another. Ashton was tackled off the ball by Tuilagi and reacted with no more than a push. For this he suffered a prolonged violent attack.

During the attack Ashton had half raised arms with open palms that looked to be for balance more than for defence and certainly not for attack.

Even if the TJ had thought the push was a punch (which it wasn't) he must have seen the extent of the attack including the third punch. He must have also seen that it was one player using excessive violence on another, rather than a fair fight. For this he should have recommended a red card for Tuilagi and possible yellow for Ashton.

Therefore I think it would be right for the TJ to be questioned by the RFU on his judgement and prove his abilities to officiate at this level in the future.

Having seen some very poor displays by refs in SL they too should have to answer for regular bad decisions and perhaps dropped back a division or two.

I fully understand WHY he got a yellow but remain of the view he was unlucky to do so.

It's perfectly clear that at no stage does he throw a punch or attempt to block a punch. That is my judgment and should be the judgment of any rational viewer.

What is yours?

FALLLCCCOOONNN!

You only have to watch and listen to the video to hear exactly what the touch judge saw, he describes it quite clearly to the referee who then acts solely on his description being that the ref had his back to the whole incident.

To suggest what the TJ should have seen when in fact you can hear quite clearly what he did see is a pointless exercise as is comparing what the TJ saw to what the TV viewer can see, the whole reason for having high quality video recording in the grounds at this level is precisely because the ruling bodies acknowledge that the match officials will not see everything that happens, or will see a different version of events.

All of which goes back to what I said at the start of the thread, its a great advert for the professional respect shown to the officials in both codes of rugby that the sin-binning of both players, one of whom was totally innocent of anything, was simply accepted by the players and all of his team-mates - I dread to think what Mr Savage and his nancy friends would have done in a similar situation.

If everyone who pushed someone off the ball in Union got a yellow card they'd be down to 3 a side after the first ten minutes. His yellow was a joke.

Show some discipline? Like 99.99% of RU players do when given a harmless push.

You mean brought up as a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa'afafineFa'afafine?[/url

Think it's one of the older Tuilagi brothers who doesn't play rugby and remains third-gender committed.

That'll be why it only reminded me of that altercation between outside backs.



If Ashton wanted no part of it perhaps he should have avoided forcibly shoving Tuilagi in the head from the blindside while he was on the ground.

People attempting to minimise Ashton's prominent role at the start of this incident (yes I realise he was reacting to being tackled on suspicion) are missing the point.

Ashton (Mather) started it - Tuilagi (Senior) finished it.

I heard what the touch judge said. But that doesn't mean it is the same as what he and the rest of the crowd saw.

You are making the assumption that what the touch judge reported to the referee was what he saw. Either he saw the incident or his view was obstructed. As he didn't report that his view was obstructed then he should have seen what happened. The view from the touchline would have clearly been good enough to see that one player was was much more violent than the other and therefore deserved a red card. His report to the ref did not convey this important imformation. So either the judgement of the touch judge is flawed or he succommed to home bias - a condition that is not unusual!

The touch judge also did not police the area outside the Leicester bench as he he required to do. He allowed the players and trainers to be too close to the touchline with a risk of obstructing his view of the action.

I agree with your point about rugby players accepting poor decisions by officials. It is just a shame that some of these officials are not as professional as the players.

If we're straying into the realms of match officials lying to each other then we're probably stretching the argument a bit too far ...

You are still missing the point - rather like the touch judge. There was a clear assult by one player on another and the touchjudge got it wrong. He needs to be questioned about either his eyesight or his judgement.

The touch judge appears to have:
1) missed the off the ball tackle by Tuilagi on Ashton
2) viewed the push by Ashton and deemed it a punch
3) thought it a fair fight with both players equally to blame.

His report to the ref was inaccurate and his judgement/eyesight are not up to the standard required for a professional sport at this level.

Pushing and shoving goes on at most games with the occassional bout of fistacuffs. But this incident was plain common assault and should be stamped out of the game by match officials with more courage than this TJ showed. It was a high profile occassion with a big TV audience with many youngsters watching.

You are being just a bit naive to believe that a home crowd bias does not sometimes colour the officials judgement.

Not common assault as above, broken skin on display more than common assault