Yes, do you know why, because Leeds Utd where relegated (after a couple of seasons bobbing round the lower part of the premiership) at the end of the 2003-2004 season, which is mid-way through the SL season, the same SL season that Leeds Rhinos won the SL with a record points total, a record points scored, a record points difference, by a record margin and for the first time since Methuselah was born.

I would think the fact the Rhinos were successful, and so successful, after such a long wait had much more of an affect than Leeds Utd being relegated mid way through the SL season.

Average attendances at Leeds Rhinos increased by almost 5,000 between 1996 and 1999, a period when Leeds United were enjoying Champions League football, reaching the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup and breaking the British transfer record.

Where did those extra 5,000 fans come from? Shouldn't they have been saving up for expensive European away trips and Leeds United season tickets?

Hetherington has gone on record on numerous occassions about how Leeds Rhinos have more fans from outside it's catchment area than any other club.

The team at Headingley, coincidentally from 2003, actually targetted fans from other areas to increase the gates. Cumbria and Northumerland give a high number of visitors to Headingley. I doubt that many of them will be Leeds United fans.

By contrast, Leeds United have previously gone on record has saying that over 20% of their supporter base is from Outside of Yorkshire and in the south of the country and Ireland.

22-Feb-04 ….. London ….. 15,119
19-Mar-04 ….. Wigan ….. 18,124
08-Apr-04 ….. Bradford ….. 21,225
16-Apr-04 ….. Huddersfield ….. 11,701
07-May-04 ….. Warrington ….. 16,065
=#FF0000Leeds United Relegated
28-May-04 ….. Salford ….. 14,239
11-Jun-04 ….. Widnes ….. 13,419
25-Jun-04 ….. Hull ….. 15,153
09-Jul-04 ….. Castleford ….. 13,922
23-Jul-04 ….. St Helens ….. 16,635
01-Aug-04 ….. Wakefield ….. 15,629
22-Aug-04 ….. Bradford ….. 21,225
27-Aug-04 ….. Castleford ….. 14,605
17-Sep-04 ….. London ….. 17,329

Leeds were enjoying a pretty good upsurge in support even before Leeds' relegation probably by way of the factors mentioned previously.

Absolutely cock on there. I was going to rip the pi55 out of the whole city of Leeds until I factored in the context of the current economic climate.

Every club has its core supporters and most will be envious of the solid season ticket sales at Headingley despite a poor last season by recent standards.

With the belt tightening that most people are having to contemplate you would expect ticket sales to be under pressure. Add to that the fact that the team last year were well below their best for entertainment and you lose some support.

If the new coaches can get the team returning to a fast, offloading, wider attacking game then the floating supporters will be there at the turnstyles. As has been previously stated those that did not want to commit to the cost of the season ticket will be there for the big games.

When playing well Leeds have always attracted the independent rugby league supporter who has no real ties to any club but values open rugby in a great stadium with atmosphere. Put the product on the field and the support will be there even in difficult economic times. (please note GH)

Ich sehe Trolle Deutsch sprechen und verstehen??



Aber, Sie müssen zustimmen der Rest ist richtig, nicht wahr...?

vielleicht Adey.....vielleicht

Didn't GH make a comment the other season about negative rugby? A lot of folk thought he was having a pop at certain other clubs, but I always thought that he was actually giving Bluey the Scarborough warning about our own on field style and disciplinary problems.

Might that have been a factor in Bluey's early departure?

I think we all would love to see that type of rugby league, and this season should prove very interesting!

Maybe I should have read the whole article (I'd read it last week and assumed this thread was about a new article) so went looking for a different article

About time.

Leeds United (can't guarantee accuracy as taken of t'web)...

2003-2004 36666 (Pr)
2004-2005 28632 (Ch)
2005-2006 22354 (Ch) *Bates first season prices hike massively*
2006-2007 21613 (Ch)
2007-2008 26546 (L1)
2008-2009 23813 (L1)
2009-2010 23115 (L1)
2010-2011 26668 (Ch)

...hard to see any real correlation between the two, especially when you take into account season overlaps

On the other hand there is a clear correlation between our attendances and success (and other factors):

1996 ..... 8,581 (Finished 3rd Bottom)
1997 ..... 10,998 (Became the Rhinos, sign Iestyn)
1998 ..... 12,164 (Grand Finalist)
1999 ..... 13,482 (First CC win in 20-odd years)
2000 ..... 12,674
2001 ..... 12,881
2002 ..... 12,157
2003 ..... 12,846
2004 ..... 16,028 (First championship in 32 years)
2005 ..... 17,012
2006 ..... 15,677
2007 ..... 17,558 (Champions)
2008 ..... 17,043 (Champions)
2009 ..... 15,774 (Champions) *South stand capacity cut by 2k*
2010 ..... 15,355 *South stand capacity cut by 2k*

We are far more cosmopolitan in this big city of ours, we find our brains can very easily cope with watching and supporting two sports as indeed we don't faint when the omnibus travels above walking speed or stand and point when the electric lights come on of an evening.

Its really simple - the relationship between Leeds Utd and Leeds Rhinos is not linked to either team's success in relation to the other, more that their support, in common with all other sporting teams, fluctuates with success and failure. I have yet to meet anyone at Headingley who will state that they only started supporting the Rhinos BECAUSE Leeds Utd were relegated to the (old) third division.

Could the diversity of catchment and the places that people come from be due to the ground being in the main student residential area??? and as Leeds met in particulra has massively expanded in recent years, there are more sports fans resident in headingly???

as a bulls fan, I would be much happier if we had been in your position over the last 5 years than ours! and yes, I would be gloating. Bradford City has done cut price season pass deals and it niether guarantees an atmosphere or success. it just puts bums on seats. the acid test is in a couple of years when prices go up. Can the product bring people in at full price?

If the product appeals than yes. Success will undoubtably speed this up but a solid team full of locally sourced players who want to play for your team should not be underestimated.

Its an interesting question, the Rhinos have never really done large scale ticket promotions, they've done the odd one-off promotion for specific games but nothing on the scale that the Bulls did during the Bullmania years, Leeds never gave vouchers for tickets in the YEP for instance.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, with the on-field team winning you build a support base and as you say hopefully it will stay when the offers stop, unfortunately for the Bulls the offers HAD to stop at the same time as the decline on field set in.

Leeds Rugby Ltd will do special offers when they have to, I have never had any problems in buying very cheap tickets for Leeds Carnegie because that part of the business is in dire need of income and a new support base, I have a seat ticket for this weekends game against Leicester for just £7.50 with entry to the Long Bar, a free manicure and gift goodie bag, I have to dress as a "lay-dee" and pretend to be my brothers wife, but thats well worth doing for that sort of saving.

Just out of interest, this weekends "Bring the Mrs" (two for £15) - is it totally legal to advertise things like that

I'd imagine if some gay couple took an outrage the Daily Mail would step in to write a shocking and gripping article of their trauma.

You are making some pretty big assumptions - if you were going to 10 games you would buy a ST so I would suggest you figure but well off the mark.

If the above scenario were the case GH would not be wasting his time personally ringing supporters trying to persuade them to renew nor would he be taking newspaper inches to explain his embarrassing plight?

I don't know what the profitability of the Rhinos was last year but I would suggest not selling these tickets will turn the surplus into a deficit.

However in the current economic climate to be only 10% down is a very creditable position.

I realised after writing that if you were selecting games rather than the season ticket it would fall between the 6-8 mark and not the 10 I originally said (I should of known really as I fall into the cherry pick category since moving to Hull), but it was late so was hoping noone would pick up on it.



Besides like I also mentioned we may be 10% behind last seasons sales but by the time we play our first game at HQ I bet that figure reduces to around 3-4%.

of = have

But the trouble is, Leeds Utd were already in trouble when that season of SL began. So while you base your argument on the Rhinos already having an increase in attendance, the fact that Utd were sinking when the season starts suggests you've already got an influx from Elland Road long before May

Yet in 2003/2004 Leeds utd averaged just under 37k in a 40k capacity stadium.

There must be some more straws they can grasp in this argument surely ?