How do you judge whether a team has "delivered" one game into a season? They played poorly and lost. Leeds played poorly but were fortunate enough to be against opposition so badly prepared they were unable to take advantage. If either side continues that level of performance much further into the season they'll struggle to deliver on their pre-season promises.

Quite easily. See who won. We can get into the pragmatics of better ways to win or lose, but ulimately winning the games are all that counts. Those who win deliver. Results are judged upon, and rightly so. Do you think Wigan will feel like they've delivered against Wakie? A quick persual on their message board answers that one.

I somehow doubt the press coverage you mentioned will have focussed on Wigan's ability to deliver in their opening match against Wakefield in isolation, in much the same way that losing their opening game doesn't condemn the Crusaders to being failures.

Judge whether Wigan have "delivered" and lived up to the perceived hype at the end of the season - I suspect they will.

Sounds like a bet on the cards. Fancy it?

How do you judge 'delivered'?

Answered previously.

Not correct.

Different clubs have different criteria for having delivered.

Speak to them about it then.

Quote ="Forumjacker"Not correct. Different clubs have different criteria for having delivered.'" www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 82,00.html I'd say that covers it!

Quote ="Forumjacker"Not correct. Different clubs have different criteria for having delivered.'" www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 82,00.html I'd say that covers it!

Covers what?

The definition of Wiagan delivering.

Their goals for this seaon which in turn can be judged by wether they have delivered or not.

When Noble arrived in April 2006, Dave Whelan stated that if Wigan didn't win silverwear by the end of 2009, it'd be time for him to go.

He delivered his verdict last season.

Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004

Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004

Quote ="thebloodbath"Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004'" What has happened to that lad? His game appears to have fallen apart and I honestly thought he was top class whilst here.

Quote ="thebloodbath"Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004'" What has happened to that lad? His game appears to have fallen apart and I honestly thought he was top class whilst here.

I watched him alot in the academy and enjoyed his rugby in a senior Leeds shirt. He was a talented player. For that reason I overlooked his arrogance because he did the business on the pitch. He had a nightmare with injury in Ozz and hasn't settled into the Wigan shirt at all. Maybe in private he'd love a return to Leeds, to former glories and best friends (McGuire). But that ship has sailed, we don't have room for him (Webb and Smith) and he's slipping into obscurity. The only question remains, can he turn it round? And show what he was once capable of? I can't see it happening at Wigan and how many fresh challenges does he need?

This was a lad that was very, very talented.

It surely can't be make or break time in his career at this age. Is he really playing any worse than any of the journeymen antipodeans' that don't appear to come under the same type of scrutiny in the league?

Anyway, he's still a better player than Michael Platt.

Not make or break to the letter, but a couple more duff years and the quality of clubs interested in his services would dip. Surely?

Yes and I agree, while ever Michelle Platt's still knocking about, Mathers can sleep at night. Talk about a bag of sh*t.

Have to agree there. I remember the start of the 2004 season where he'd ousted Gary Connolly from the fullback spot, and fully deserved the position too. Remember he had a cracker away at Hull FC the week they released Connolly from his contract.

Felt he was also a strong contender for the man of the match in the 2004 Grand Final. Some of the bombs he defused under the pressure that night were awesome (didn't he also have to miss the internationals post-season due to a wrist injury from the final too?).

Shame to see such a decline in someone who clearly does have great ability.

Quote ="thebloodbath"Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004'" Mathers has been banned for two matches.

Quote ="thebloodbath"Proper punishment on his way to Mathers? www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=13004'" Mathers has been banned for two matches.

It would appear so, just take a look at the pies board

Good to know.

It should have been red anyway and this banning sends a clear message, that trippers (or ts) will be handed a sensible punishment for an act of stupidity. I know I'm harping on about it, but I still feel it's worth a red in the game as well. Mathers comments, on the eve of the season, about knuckling down and keeping his nose clean are highly hilarious, now he's been banned after the the first game.

Had to bring this back up. Going by what he has been spouting on the SL Show Nobby has lost the plot. He has a decent array of youth tallent at his disposal at Wigan but ellects to play Overseas players intstead of blooding them. Saying that Superleague clubs need to look in to poaching youth tallent from union squads because of a lack of youth tallent in league is another nail in his coffin IMO

From last Sunday.

Indeed ... He was spouting it on the SL Show this week.

I like the bit where he said 'the views of other well-known thinkers on the game' .... Not Mo Lindsay perchance ?

Are there any Union players in their game that a) We'd want and thus make the GB side better ? b) Would want to leave their massive salaries and chance their arm at a game that they've never played before or would have any assurance they'd be half-decent at ? 14 Union rejects WILL NOT make a difference to the national side. By the way, would that the be same national side where you wouldn't pick the only recognised player in that position (Rob Burrow at scrum half) because of the team he played for ? It is one of the few credible suggestions for your selection policy during the Tri-Nations. You had decent players, trying swallowing your pride and picking a few of them ?

Take a note of the recent Grand Finalists and have a look at the number of home-developed players in each side. It is not as if there is a shortage of decent amateur teams within 30 minutes drive of the JJB they could go visit. We got Kallum Watkins from Latchford Albion, that well-known suburb of Yorkshire.

So Wigan, stop any attempt you can to bend the cap. Invest that money that is burning a hole in your pocket in a decent youth set up and go nurture anyone within 30 miles of your ground that looks half decent and stop behaving like Leeds used to do in the SL days before Caddick / Hetherington arrived.