Have to say there is a chance we could lose against Hull - if we do RS is in very big trouble. Even for me, with the investment we made pre-season this year, running at a 50% win rate with some of the poor performances we've seen, isn't good enough. 60% is just about acceptable. Big game.

I have no idea how the players view RS and the coaching staff at Leeds. If he still has their support, we should see it on the field.

It's a good post, and you're right to point out BM. I think the main criticism of BM was that we mostly player averagely throughout the season with our best playing group ever, and then turned it on when it came to the play-offs. We also played some dire rugby under BM, 2015 being the exception to both those points.

With Smith, we're playing dire rugby and not looking like we'll even make the play-offs.

I do slightly disagree with your post about Miller. Either the comms (from team or sideline) or the systems were not working during that play. It's the coaches job to make sure the right players are making the calls, or setting systems in place to make sure it doesn't happen. So in that sense, I do blame Smith.

Hull/London are probably the worst two games for RS at this point. Winning well (points wise), given their form to date, no additional credit there. Any other result and he has a very big, immediate problem. I don't see how he can improve his position from these two games. There is only down side for him.

If I was GH I'd be getting ready to offer him the role for next season. He'd be more likely to leave at season end which is fair enough. I just can't see RS turning things around to get us in the top 4 and challenging for a GF appearance which is where we should be. and if that does pan out and this season ends in a whimper, off he goes. no ifs or buts.

Good post Jim. Agree with much of that.

What I would say about Miller's short drop out is that it's very symptomatic of how we've played under Smith since start of last season and for me if we had a top coach who the players feared or coached them well, then they wouldn't dare do such a brain fart 99.9% of the time, they'd make better decisions week after week, we consistently make stupid decisions, short kick offs, don't respect the ball, don't earn the hard yards first and that is a reflection of the coaching..

I think for me I want to see how Leeds are playing with a little less pressure from the opposition. Hopefully we can pick up 2 wins next and be 6/10, which actually isn't awful as a win rate even if performances are wobbly.

I think my minimum success result for us this year was top half finish and a decent showing in play-offs. If we lose one of the next two games I'm not sure we're going to finish top half and so even voodoo doll gets dusted off. We need to be dominant too because points difference could well matter at the back end of the year.

I see it differently, I think this is a change for Leeds to get back on the horse and get back into something of a groove.

We need to play ourselves back into form, we're not going to do it on the training field only.

If we get two solid performances and wins, we are somewhat back on track. If we lose one or both of these then we are in serious trouble and I think RS position becomes untenable.

Let's be right - these are two must win games.
Hull are in a mess and are crippled with injuries.
London are the worst team in the league.
Literally no excuses.

Yeah I think it's win but also win well: our PD is rubbish and if it ends up being tight at the top half, it's going to count.

For me its the worst possible time for these 2 games. 2 'solid peformances' against 2 train wrecks of clubs isnt good enough and will simply paper the cracks / keep Rohan safe until we play someone decent and inevitably get mullered again.

You would have to say that looking at your above quote it says a lot about how hungry Leeds are as a club nowadays. McCllenan was on a percentages basis, the most successful Superleague manager we’ve ever had. Champions for 2 out of his 3 seasons, and play off semi finalists and Challenge Cup finalists the season he was released. That says a lot about what we were aspiring to back then. Yes he had a better team to work with, but I think the ruthless drive within the club that sacked him is no longer apparent. If Smith is a “project”, it’s one that must be swiftly curtailed if we languish in mid table at the end of the year.

Who has mullered us this year? Warrington was the only time I can think of.

You must have been watching a different side to most then. We've been dire most games

I'd say we've been very good in patches, and then inconsistent for the most part.

Dire is an over-reaction. Some really poor errors and odd decisions have cost us dearly.

There is a crowd power thing, so enough Leeds fans turn on the coach then his position becomes untenable. I think mostly, we're all just sick of being the League's laughing stock and we want the tide to turn.

My question is whether changing RS is going to do that and I'm still not convinced. And as I've said elsewhere, if RS hasn't worked out then we have to also look at GH's position, because ultimately this will have been the 4th coaching set up he's appointed since McDermott which hasn't worked, and as a club this is almost ten years in the wilderness now, with a couple of trophies in that time to paper over cracks maybe.

There is a chance that another coach might come in and being a breath of fresh air, if RS's approach is no longer landing with the players. The best barometer of this is the players themselves, and I doubt any of us on here really know what the players think (without quoting Austin who has sunk without trace after us).

There are some good coaches in the Championship actually, doing good jobs in difficult circumstances very often.

Rowley is a potential candidate if RS can't turn things around sharpish.

We haven't been mullered on the scoreboard, but there's something depressingly familiar about the way we're losing games this year vs last season. Losing field position - check. Bad errors when in possession - check. Mostly OK line defence followed by a howler letting in a try - check.

I cannot see GH making a move until the off season myself. If we lose both games at Hull and London maybe that will change, but for good or bad he's decided Smith is the man to take the club forward over the longer term.

Even if/when a decision is made to make a change, I can't see Leeds looking for a coach in a professional way. Furner got the gig as an ex-player. Agar was a caretaker coach who got a dead cat bounce and then proved his previous record as a coach was a pretty accurate guide to his ability. Smith seemingly got the gig because he knows Chev and is Tony's nephew. None of that smacks of a professional approach to appointing a coach. Just more jobs for the lads.

I still hope Rohan can turn things around. I really do. But if he doesn't the alternative is more likely to be some combination of Golden Generation former players with zero track record than genuinely the next 'big thing' out of Australia.

jim, anybody can play without pressure. it's easy.

the best teams/ players/ coaches deal with it

I agree with you, but we still have a problem with the quality and depth in the squad. We can speculate on the coaching, and 80% of posters on here have made their mind up fair enough, but we literally haven't had our first choice team out as far as I can remember, and that first choice team is still short of a couple of stars.

A back line of Miller, Fus, Newman, Mom and Handley is very good on paper. Problem is we've never seen them line up all together.

The pack is unable to dominate on either side of the game; but in all honesty I've never been truly satisfied with Leeds packs since I've been watching.

Last year we were decimated by injuries and defections. Actually first part of the year, before the wheels fell off, we had a couple of really good performances and results.

Ultimately the coach will carry the can for results but I want to see how we show up in these next 2 games. IF we turn around 6/10 over the next couple of weeks, overall I'd take that as start.

Gutted for McDonnell last week, he was having another really strong game in the back row but then got done several times out at centre. He needs to bend his back more at times, he goes pretty high and then gets fended with lateral movement.

Yes and we clearly need to find a groove and some confidence and form at the moment. Hull will raise their game for us by the way, and it might not be as much of a shoe-in as some expect. They'll earmark us as we look vulnerable.

I think a fair few on here want to see us lose in order to get rid of a coach you don't like, which is fair enough.

Personally I want to see us perform better so we can go into Cats and Saints away with our tails up. Still plenty to play for this year, but we'll need something close to our first choice side to make any impact in play-offs.

I am sick of us losing so much but in all honesty we've been like this for a very long time now. This side is still better/stronger than we've had for some time, and I can see the framework of a genuinely good side starting to emerge. Time will tell.

With respect to the pack I think the first and most fundamental thing to look at is the mindset. On paper we haven't got the best front row, but attitude goes a long long way. Maybe we got scared due to suspensions a year or so ago, but without aggression you lose the contest almost every time. Its a balancing act, but I really think we'd look better with a far more aggressive attitude in the forwards. Rohan talks a lot about being in the contest, but on a micro level we lose far too many tackles, which translates to field position.

I do agree we look light in the front row. I see four genuine props in our squad. But who decided to contract a bunch of smaller second rowers and not add at least one experienced big bopper?

Yep now that I totally agree with. We were also reportedly in for Eseh and Okoro, lost both to sides above us in the table, and I'd like to know why. Eseh is from Leeds.

Holroyd has bags of potential but he does have odd brain farts, and he clearly needs an injury-free period and especially an injury-free preseason. Mik loses the collision too much and gets put in his back, his PTB is painfully slow very often. Sangare is very Route 1 and can be effective there - he is massive though. Lisone is rocks and diamonds, very aggressive but prone to brain farts also.

I still have hopes for Hudson, the lad is big but he has some toe and decent handling too actually. Probably more a player for 2025 in all seriousness though. Meantime we look like we need a real starting prop and another hard hitting / running back row; not Goudemand/Donaldson/Bentley/O'Connor type. Especially if Martin leaves we're gonna have to spend some money; I'd sign a first grade best-we-can-get back rower to replace him and then let everyone else fight it out for the other spot.

Jim, top 4 finish and a decent cup and playoff run should have been the minimum target this year given the money spent on recruitment. anything less than that is a failure. GH said himself the recruitment undertaken should make us competitive at the top of the comp and this is where we should expect to be given the club's size and power.

Lee Briers wants a head coach job either here or in the NRL.

Couldn't stand Briers as a player - is he another genius coach like Sean Long I wonder...?

Here's a leftfield name for you all: Andrew Henderson at York. I think he's doing a really good job over there - team performance against Bradford at the weekend was everything Leeds haven't been great at if I'm honest. Really solid and committed team performance with good shape at times.

Yep well personally I'm prepared to wait another season for a genuine top 4 push. I think our native lads will improve further, and obviously we still need to tinker with some additional signings to bolster that.

Top half and something in the play-offs would mean progress for me; although of course we're looking disappointing in light of the players we've brought in.

I agree a club of our size should be way stronger than we are, but this has been us under several different coaches for a very long time now. Something's not clicking.

Briers seems to be going well in the NRL and is well thought of.
Sometimes a second in command gets away with it more for sure.
Henderson again is another who might benefit an assistant role to a SL coach.
Didn`t he have that role before?