Can I clarify, the academy that beat your academy in the grand final today !

That's fair enough, however the real test us how many will make the transition to the senior side

There will probably be a few spots open given the age profile of Warrington's senior side, so I would expect a few of them will get their chance.

The thing with academy side progression to the first team is there are no prizes really for producing steady SL standard players, what really makes a difference is finding a few top class players and keeping them at the club. Lots of clubs can report decent numbers of players that are first team regulars that came through their academy but the real merit comes in having guys like Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire in the team for a decade which is what Leeds success has been built on.

Warrington have been getting better results at youth level over the past few years but whether we have guys of that calibre we will have to see. It's a shame we were so disorganised in the mid 1990s because when we finished joint top of the league in 1994 and Iestyn Harris & Paul Sculthorpe emerging out of the Academy we could have had a different future had those guys played their careers at Wire.

Saville Row wrote: Can I clarify, the academy that beat your academy in the grand final today !




"DOH"!!!

I`ll say again..... "Made up fact of the day"!!

Can't argue with that.

Not a point scoring excersise but how many first teamers did come through the wire academy?

Last night Riley, Harrison and Cooper came through academy. Also this season Evans, O'Brien, McCarthy, Blythe, Dwyer, Currie and Williams had varied numbers of starting 17 slots. That's not bad for a side that ( as Sally C pointed out ) was so strapped for cash in the late 1990s that we scrapped the 'A' team to save money. It takes years to re-build a youth set up. As some have pointed out, we can't be doing too badly now given yesterday's Valvoline result.

Yes, with Warrington's Academy it was essentially reboot and rebuild from scratch around 10 years ago. We had scrapped the academy temporarily in the late 1990s. Richie Mathers was on the books as a schoolboy around that time before he went over to Leeds.

We set up a scholarship system with William Beamont school and have put more and more effort into the youth set up but also we were starting from a much further behind position because compared to places like Leeds and Wigan or the Cas/Wakey area that have lots of junior clubs around, Warrington doesn't historically have the same density of junior players and clubs on our doorstep. In that context we have done really well in terms of catch up over the last decade.

In terms of really good players that we have produced, since Harris and Scully came through in the mid 1990s there is only really Paul Wood and Chris RIley that have been consistent top SL players that would interest the top clubs. Ian Sibbit is the other one that went on to have a long SL career albeit most of it not with us. Paul Noone l thought was a decent player but just as he looked to have cracked it in 2005, he seemed to fall out of favour in 2006 and after being released by us disappeared. The more recent generation of young players, Harrison, Cooper, McCarthy, Evans, are good though, and have been able to hold their own in a top side.

At the moment I am fairly optimistic that we will have a fair few SL standard players from the ranks coming through as the Academy team has been strong for the last few years and we have had a good set of representative call ups at junior level. The real question is if/where the likes of Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow are going to come from. No matter how good the coaching is they can't manufacture a player of that calibre they can only help players reach their own maximum potential. Those Leeds guys not only had huge natural ability but also great attitudes and mental discipline which made them reach and stay at the top, again this is born not made.

As for the argument that Warrington have been buying up young talent from other clubs this is true, but this is nothing unusual from us, top sides have done it all the time. Since we have been able to spend up to the full salary cap we have been spending the same as the other top clubs but the lack of having a lot of big guns from our own academy in the first team has left us with more apparent signing power than our rivals: Leeds, Wigan and Saints are having to use salary cap space on Sinfield, McGuire, O'Loughlin, Tomkins, Roby etc and those guys will be on good salaries. Although we'd love to have had those guys come through, the fact we haven't, has left us with more spare cash lying over hence we've been the front runners in the market for the best young players at the smaller clubs eg Myler, Ratchford, Atkins etc. This is a better use of funds than signing ageing players or big names for the sake of it.

But also lets be honest other big clubs have done this all the time. Guys like Iestyn Harris and Gareth Ellis were huge players for Leeds that came through smaller clubs academy systems and Leeds don't need to feel guilty about that, neither do Saints for signing Sculthorpe and Wilkin. People notice Warrington because they have become more active in that market in recent years. If we do manage to bring through some big guns out of our own youth system though we will have less salary cap space and so will be less big players in the market.

I would love to know how Warrington do manage their salary cap with all the big names in it !!!

That's because they play for the love of the game and to win trophies at a big club. Also I imagine the opportunity to work under [iuber[/i coach tony smith would be a factor as well.

They're the new big game team, they've replaced saints with their star studded line up and their 'win every single final we play in' team.

I wouldnt be totally down if we do lose as Leeds are thee Grand Final side and also Leeds owe us in a Final after two pretty easy wins in the end at Wembley.

Should be a great game I felt our semi last year was good enough to be a Grand Final, it had everything.

all the players wags are very expensive cleaners

r its a live cap it can't be breached

List your squad next to Wire's squad, estimate their salaries, and you'll probably find there really isn't much difference between the salary totals.....



For a start, I'm willing to wager that nobody in the Wire squad is earning more than Sinfield or McGuire.

i bet they do. and i bet benny westwood hopes he gets the same type of contract as he did last time

You haven't a clue, pal.....Admit it, you know jack. If you knew what all the players were earning, you wouldn't spend your time on here.

You're like the majority on these boards, claim to know all the 'inside' info, but actually just get your stuff from the local taxi driver or your own over-active imagination.

Saints used to be the grand final masters. But then relatively new kids on the block leeds rolled up and blew them out of the water in 2007.

Now, leeds, are the wiley old grand final masters and warrington the hungry new kids on the block, ready to blow them out of the water.

As a fan i feel so different looking ahead to the GF than i did the CCF. The CC i was nervous all week about 'could we finally nail the missing piece'. Already i feel quite relaxed about next Saturday (similar to last year), you get the same sense from the players. It's a case of whether or not it's a complete roll reversal and Warrington feel more tension about the 'their missing piece' than they did at Wembley where they'd already done it twice.

Despite the gap in final league placings no-one at Wire should underestimate Leeds.

I don't think the Wire fans are underestimating Leeds as much as their own supporters are!

Leeds Grand Final record is outstanding. A really tough team who never give up. Should be a great game

While I'm clearly not going to wager on something that is pure speculation, I'd plump for one or more of Waterhouse, Westwood, Atkins, Myler (big money signing), M.Monaghan and maybe even Hodgson (reigning MoS when signed...tho' maybe resigned since then).

Oh and I'd imagine J.Monaghans contract took a pretty healthy jump after the first one-year-dog-botherer-deal.

Intresting post.

Just out of interest though - can anyone confim if the highlighted bit right? He started out at Milford which is pretty much spitting distance from Headingley and I'm sure I've heard McGuire in the past talking about how Richie and him played in the same side at Leeds from a very young age all the way to the first team.

I remember Richie went on loan to the wire for a while.

He was about 13 when he signed schoolboy terms with Warrington. I remember it being in the Warrington Guardian but their archive site doesn't go back far enough, there was a lot of talk about him as being one of the outstanding schoolboys.

I would expect he must have been about 14 or 15 when he went to Leeds as he played in Leeds Academy. He came back to us for a brief spell on loan when he was 18 and then signed for us again in his mid 20s.

From that era (late 1990s) the schoolboy names I always remember hearing about were Mathers and Sinfield. Mathers because he was on our books, and Sinfield, we tried to get in part exchange as part of the Iestyn Harris deal, but Leeds wouldn't have it...they gave us Danny Sculthorpe as well.

Rhinos call on teen spirit for big Saints clash
YEP - 28th August 2002

Teenager Richard Mathers could be in line for his Leeds Rhinos senior debut at St Helens on Friday after being recalled from a loan spell at Warrington Wolves. The 18-year-old Rhinos Academy star has made a big impression since joining the Wolves earlier this season, making a handful of senior appearances including a start against Wigan on Monday. He was due to stay with Warrington until the end of the season, but Leeds’ injury crisis has led to him being called back to Headingley.... snip..... Powell said: “[iRichard Mathers is coming back after being at Warrington. He has had a chance and he has shown he can handle playing at Super League level. We need bolstering at the moment because of injuries and he has shown he can do a capable job. There is a chance he will play on Friday[/i.” =#0000BFMathers played his junior rugby with the Milford amateur club and had a spell at Warrington before linking up with the Rhinos’ Academy. He has played for England Academy and Great Britain schools, but has yet to make his Rhinos first team debut. Powell said: “[iWarrington were very happy with him, he did a good job for them. He played a number of positions, six, wing, a bit of full-back and centre against Wigan on Monday. I thought he stood up very well in that game. He is a very strong character, very determined. He really wants to reach the top of the game and he works as hard as possible to make that happen. On the field his versatility is a big strength. He is a full-back, but he can play in a number of positions and do it well[/i.”


Mathers gets his chance after a Rhinos SOS call
YEP - 30th August 2002

It has been quite a week for teenager Richard Mathers – facing Wigan on Monday and St Helens on Friday, both with different clubs. Mathers was a member of the Warrington Wolves side beaten by Wigan on Monday, before being recalled from his loan spell and drafted into Leeds Rhinos’ senior squad. He will be back in front of the Sky TV cameras again this evening when he makes his Rhinos senior debut against Saints at Knowsley Road. The 18-year-old former Milford amateur admitted the phone call from Leeds asking him to return to Headingley had come as a bolt from the blue. Rhinos Academy boss Stuart Wilkinson made the initial call to see if Mathers was interested, before first team coach Daryl Powell got in touch. “[iIt was the last thing I expected after the game on Monday,” he said. “It was a bit of a shock and I didn’t believe it at first, but I snapped his hand off when he asked me to come back. Daryl said I held my own at Warrington and he thinks I can do a job for Leeds. I went to Warrington to prove a point and I’m really grateful they gave me a chance. David Plange was fantastic with me. I thought I went all right. I thought I needed first team rugby and Dave gave me the opportunity. I played in a number of positions for them and they were really pleased with me. They were reluctant to let me come back, but that’s how it goes.[/i” Mathers admitted making his Rhinos debut will be “a dream come true”. He said: “[iI’ve been a Leeds fan as long as I can remember. I was a season ticket holder from the age of five or six and I used to stand in the South Stand. It is fantastic that I’ve got the opportunity to play for them. It will be unreal, especially against St Helens. Playing against Wigan on Monday and Saints on Friday is going to be an interesting week and one I won’t forget[/i.” Mathers will be hoping for a better result than his previous appearance against Saints just four weeks ago, when he was a member of the Warrington side beaten 72-2. “[iI know a bit about them, so I’m not jumping straight in[/i,” he said. “[iWe got hammered. I played a number of positions, I started on the wing but Sid Domic got injured so I played 60 minutes at six against Paul Sculthorpe. Although we lost 72-2 it was an invaluable experience. He is a world class player. I think it made me a better person and player, playing against Paul Sculthorpe. Tonight is going to be tough, but all being well it will prove the quality of the young players at Leeds. If we stand up I think we can really give them a run for their money. Daryl’s just told us to express ourselves and not go into our shells. He thinks we can do a good job. He believes in our talent, otherwise he wouldn’t put us in. I think we can turn them over if we all stick together and express ourselves the way we can[/i.” Though he was recalled because of an injury crisis, Mathers is adamant he is not just making up the numbers. “[iI’ve said to Daryl I don’t just want to be a stop gap,” he said. “I don’t want to play one game then go back in the Academy. Daryl has said that’s in my hands and I agree with him. I want to take the chance with both hands and hopefully keep my place[/i.”

__________

St Helens won Mathers' Leeds debut game at Knowsley Road 38 - 18.

Pretty much the same for me. I looked forward to the CC final with all the enthusiasm of a plumber called out to unblock Shaun Wane's toilet. This one I feel we can win.

I'm the opposite, i really thought it could finally be our time in the cc final. But with the grand final, it's been 57 years since warrington won a championship, it just feel like ''its going to be their time''.