Out of the blue to the fans perhaps (I had no inkling until I saw him walk into that press conference with McGeechan sat there) but surely not to the club who presumably facilitated the move - although I understand the two CEO(s) haven't spoken since.

Agreed regards lack of direction right now but it was always going to happen, but also remember that McGuire missing is having a big impact too and that has highlighted it even more so. Regardless of all that, the fact we couldn't get over the line with all the field position and chances we had to get the one try that would have killed the game in the second half has nothing to do with not having Sinfield any more just poor execution in general.We had glorious chance to score on the half time buzzer and the Sutcliffe break just after they both should have been tries but were bombed simple as that, that's the game right there.

I seem to remember Sinny saying something like it happened pretty quick (the 6 weeks prior to the press conference?).

Classic example of what happens when you cut the head off the chicken.
Absolute c**p.

I hate to "write this team off", but I have never thought our coach could handle the big transition that was coming. The club hasn't produced a really high quality player since Stevie Ward either.
Sutcliffe is inexperienced, coming back from a very serious injury in a team with no structure and in poor form, but f*** me, at the very least when faced with those conditions you dig in and work hard - wether it comes off or not. He tackles like a school kid who has to do rugby but really wants to be anywhere else.
The forwards should simply have run over Cas, half backs should have been irrelevant.

It's impossible to underestimate the presence of JP and Sinny at that club. Even on the rare occasions Kev didn't play he was still there. The glue that bound that team together has gone.

You don't think Roby replaced Cunningham? And they had the luxury of doing it right, with Roby the main man before Cunningham finished. How many finals have Saints been in again since Sculthorpe retired?

Sorry but I disagree. Quality players don't grow on trees, that I agree, but proper identifying and planning is always achievable. Development is a major weakness of this club since McDermott was appointed, and we are seeing that clearly now. However, he can't be fully blamed when the guy identifies something and the club don't back him.

For me the biggest problem for this club is complacency. Not the players but the bosses. I suppose sometimes that is what comes with success, and you earn a right for complacency. But some of the problems were so clear to see coming.

With regards replacing Sinfield, if you can't find a player who can do all his roles then you split it and ensure you have it across the team. To have no game manager, no leader, no kicker, and no inspiration to others, throughout a 25 man squad is poor planning.

I do honestly think McGuire would have made a difference last night, but none of the other defeats would he have made a difference, so we are kidding ourselves to cry injuries as a reason.

Without appearing defeatist, I reckon last night has cost us a place in the top four play offs. It might appear too simplistic to declare that two dropped points has cost us any chance of a semi final play off, but under the new format and the way things are panning out, this was a must win game. For a number of reasons I think this has killed us, too many to go into. Any significant improvement can only ever be a slow burner, and it is simply time we don't have any more. Every team will have a poor run of form, and there's nothing to say we won't have another poor run even if we turn this one around. We are this season's Warrington, on paper a nailed on top four team(supposedly), on the pitch anything but. McGuire returning will have the most positive impact the team could hope for, but when you rely so much on one man it's a dangerous situation. What if Mags gets injured again? The only other way to enhance the team with any sort of individual creativity and flare is the return of Ashton Golding, alongside a rejigging of the team to accommodate him. I've resigned myself to just lifting the Challenge Cup again this season, three in a row makes us the new cup kings and I've still got some dough left on my Oyster card.

We have very little chance of being in the top four by end of regular rounds, but as long as we are in touching distance after the split no reason why we can't make top four. The players we have are good enough and if they hit there stride and form I am convinced we are still one of if not the top side in super league. We need some luck some confidence some more bodies back.

People obsessed by the top four is a little bit daft. Saint lose today and we are only four points behind. Widnes won't be anywhere near top four comes seasons end.

Top four is just as achievable as it was back in early February. The bigger issue is how the hell is this team going to turn its self around, and that is the problem situation, whether we have only two wins, or are unbeaten but playing the same. The club and the coach have it massively wrong currently, and that needs to change. Do that and top four is not out of the equation, but can't see them doing that change.

I don't think Leeds will make the top 4 now. We still have to play Wigan twice, saints away, warrington away, huddersfield away, salford away. We have got as many tough away games as we have got out of the way. The fact that leeds still have so many opportunities to take points off rivals in the regular season and in the super 8's (as long as we make it

) could be seen as a positive. A chance to make the ground back up. But the way we have played so far it is difficult to see it as anything other than another nail in the coffin of this season.

Deary me.

It's the knee-jerk massive in here



Has anyone assessed the rest of the SL teams?

I've just seen a try scored between the Top 2 (Warrington V Widnes) on Sky Sports 1, where the build up, the execution and opposition defence were embarrassingly amateur and clueless, with zero intensity.

Leeds are crap but only a moderate improvement would suffice to catapult them towards the Top 4 places in this hilariously inept SL comp.

Hard to argue billy. Eddie Hemmings - 'we have had 2 fantastic games so far, last night to start us off and a great, great Hull derby!'



last night was ok as a contest but skill levels were not high lets be honest it was two desperate teams, and the Hull derby was like watching two pub teams for the most part, pathetic how Rovers fell apart. Just watching Saints now, who i think will comfortably make the 4 still. But they are very poor these days, how many of that side would get in the 2005- 2008 team, i would only say Walmsley and Roby at a push. Its not been good so far this year.

Makinson would get in before Gardner/Meli, but yes, three is not many.

Most of the tries on the highlights shown during the Wigan/Saints match were pathetic. Just crash overs or awful kick defence.

Hate to say it Mr Eve, but I'm coming round to agreeing with you, the playing standards this year have not been up to scratch. Especially defensively Imo. Even the blowouts and Wigans score today is more down to poor defence.

Even the traditional top teams aren't producing the tight or interesting games we need, and even the games that are tight seem to be that way because of a team not killing the opposition off.

Aren't some fans on here in danger of thinking you still have the team of last season?

You're never going to replace those three players but once all are settled in and you have a somewhat full squad to choose from for a number of weeks I think you'll find that you're not that far off from last seasons standards.

Might be 12 months till you get to it but can anybody really question McD's methods over 6 or 7 weeks and especially considering what you are without from yesteryear?

Mac has to go. Sinfield ran that team. Sutcliffe is still not a stand off. Sick of saying it. We create nothing because we have the worst halves in the league

I agree he's not good enough. He's not vocal at all for a HB and people have said it's because he's young surrounded by a more experienced partner. However I recall the 2014 pre season game vs Hunslet, he'd made a dozen or so appearances for the first team the previous year yet he was just as bad in that game for not opening his mouth at all and it was left to the other HB who had no SL experience (Ben White I think?).

Also people who think he should play loose, no way, this isn't the late 90's/early 00's anymore with the ball handling loose. I'm pretty certain he couldn't do the defensive work in the middle.

He might be a good player in time but maybe he should take the Luke Gale route and work his way up.

Now that is a player that i would love back at the club to add his game management skills to our lack lustre attack in the oppositions 20m zone
(Now that he has worked his way up of course)

Warrington and Wigan look the top 2 by a fair bit at moment. Wigan's defence is excellent , they look fit and have plenty of pace. Throw in Tomkins and Williams and they will be much better on attack. Widnes good to date. The rest are up down and all over the shop. If Widnes slip, (they may not given current competition) it will leave 2 places in the 4 and still up for grabs. Not saying it will be Leeds, but saints look average at best and Huddersfield are struggling. So opens up for hull, cas or anyone else.

The lack of halves is prevalent over the comp. gale was only 1 doing anything on Thursday. I am concerned that Liam Finn will run the show on Monday !

I read an article about a month back with Ablett and he was discussing the derth of HB in the game and even his own team mates don't see Sutcliffe as a HB he described him as a running threat in the main with some ball skills. A ringing endorsement from a team mate

It looks a fair enough assessment. I wonder if long-term he's more suited to centre. Even short term we might look better with Moon - who's has plenty of experience at half - at 6 and Sutcliffe at 4.

Without trawling all the way through this thread it would seem bad decisions have been made in the past regarding player retainment.

Two of the best players on the pitch last night were Gale and Macshane who I believe both started their careers at Leeds. (apologies in advance if wrong) but you would have won the game with those two in your team.

I never thought of Watkins as a bad defender but was surprised last night at Gales touch screen analysis when he seemed to suggest that Cas had targeted him.

Saints were OK and got to finals but didn't have enough to win them.

Roby took over from cunningham but you're right that it was done gradually. I think the plan at Leeds was to do the same with Sutcliffe. He was introduced gradually and last season looked good until his injury. That threw a spanner in the works imo. Similar with Ward.

It's a sad indictment of the current state of half backs in the SL that the two best at the moment playing for Warrington are both NRL cast offs/has beens.
Catalans could be this season's dark horses for a top 4 berth now that they've discovered how to win away from home.