Rule tweaks could provide an answer. The problem with RL is that any weakness in a team can result in a very big score. The margins are very small. This not only affects top level clubs but those further down the league structure. It can be hard for new players / fans coming to the game to understand that a 50, 60pt loss is the result of only a few weaknesses

The squad in full is:

1. Zak Hardaker
2. Ben Jones-Bishop
3. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
7. Rob Burrow
8. Kylie Leuluai
9. Paul McShane
10. Jamie Peacock
12. Carl Ablett
13. Kevin Sinfield (c)
16. Ryan Bailey
17. Ian Kirke
18. Chris Clarkson
21. Richard Moore
22. Jimmy Keinhorst
23. Brad Singleton
26. Liam Sutcliffe
30. Alex Foster
31. Elliot Minchella

Thought Bailey was another week away according to McDermott?
Probably play Keinhorst for Moon with Foster and Bailey missing out of the 19.

I think it may be Foster and Minchella missing out of that line up if Brad is fully fit, if he's still waiting on fitness and fails then Foster in for him. And likewise Bailey in or out if also waiting for late fitness test, but think one of Brad/Bailey will be in team, coaches wouldn't keep two players in the squad on a maybe can play basis???

Bailey's definitely not playing, and Minchella will play if Foster doesn't pass his fitness test

yes keinhorst hall partnership has been terrible has it not maybe count their games and try ratio

Keinhorst is terrible, correct.

Gotcha has a thing about Keinhorst and won't let it go.

TBH Moon and Hall haven't combined too well this season, Hall has received a lot of last resort offloads. I think Keinhorst is more a wingers man and will give Hall the ball early to do his thing.

WTF, is this for real

I'm not saying Keinhorst is better, just that Hall has struggled outside Moon. Moon is very good at attacking the line but the standard of ball he has given Hall this season has not been that great.

It's nailed on. Moon's service to Hall hasn't been great. It's getting better, but still isn't as good as the service Hall has received from his previous centres including Ablett. It's no coincidence that a winger who has topped 30 tries each season for three years in a row is on 14 at present.

Moon is a good player, better than Keinhorst no doubt, but his service to Hall is no better than Keinhorsts.

Other than Peacock who is a shoe in, Moon will be the closest other Leeds Rhinos player to a dream team spot this year.

Hall has been to blame on a lot of those occasions you are alluding to. They have only been together for 20 odd games.

Whilst I'm not Keinhorst's biggest fan, I agree with you about Moon's "last resort" offloads.
The round-the-back cocktail-shaker offloads to empty space are like watching Richie Blackmore sometimes.

The same Ryan Hall you said had a bad game at London last week?

Erm, OK.

Moon is a good player. I like him. He's an offensive threat. But his service to Hall is a million miles behind Seniors and Abletts and is no better than Keinhorst.

As you say, it's early in their partnership and I hope to see it improve. That doesn't negate that it has been below par up to press.

And yet it's funny how we had the same sort of comments when Hardaker was his centre too. Yet he got more tries with Hardaker there then he did with Ablett there.

Nobody his going to give it like Senior in his prime, he even made Cummins look the worlds best. Moon has a lot of other qualities, and it is up to Hall to think faster on some of those occassions to make sure he benefits.

He can't have all the praise when it's all laid on a plate for him, and then get all the excuses when it's not.

Compare and contrast to last week at London, on the right side of the field. BJB was fully understanding what Watkins was doing.

Back to Keinhorst, how many did he lay on for Hall then?

Yes lets do that. A couple of lovely passes from Watkins, showing very quick hands, put BJB away. BJB finished well.

Had Moon given Hall a couple of similar opportunities I am certain, giving Hall's finishing abilities he'd have had a couple of tries added to his prodigious game stats.

Moon put Hall away twice against London, and certainly on one of them should have been an easy try for him, he blew it.

The point is, that Watkins was fast hands without full control, but BJB was there. I don't believe for one minute Hall would have got on the second of those passes. That is not putting down Hall, becausae that was down to an understanding with his centre. Some pick it up quicker, others don't.

You complain about the "out the back door" passes that haven't resulted in tries from Moon, Yet what about the ones Hall has actually got from these exact passes. How many actual centres in Super League actually have the skill to do that pass?

Just like Hall has scored many tries that other wingers would not get. Usually down to what he is best at, finishing in tight situations with strength. Quick hands and thinking are not his strengths.

IMO Watkins had full control on both of those lovely fast hands passes. I'd love to see Moon do that.

Why wouldn't you believe that? Would it be Hall's prodigious talent, finishing abilities and reputation?

No issues with his previous centres. Maybe it's the centre not picking things up as quickly?

When have I complained about that?

He doesn't need quickl hands. He needs his centre to have them. As for thinking, you've absolutely no idea. He's a bright bloke is Hall, can do a Rubiks cube and has A levels.

Can you qualify what you mean, in rugby terms by "thinking" because I think you've just used a word because it popped into your head. Never mind meaning or context.

It's quite simple, thinking on the rugby pitch is completely difference to thinking at a desk. You have to do it in a time frame at speed.

I can do a rubics cube, and I also have A levels, I couldn't even think as quick as Hall on the rugby pitch.

His strength is brawn, work ethic, and speed =#FF0000of footwhen he has momentum. What is the problem with that? He is not strong at positioning, often over running his centre no matter who is there.

Why are you trying to turn something into about Hall? The issue was about Moon, and I think the return from that side of the field is as good as any other season. Just because the numbers under Halls name is different, doesn't make the benefit to the side any different.

Moon and Hall are clearly (to me at least) both very classy players. THat the partnership hasn't quite clicked as well as we'd like is a bit disappointing. I think it's also probably something that can be worked on further so I wouldn't want to do away with it just yet. The potential remains, I think.

Watkins and BJB know and understand each other very well. I also don't think Moon is quite as good as Watkins. Watkins is still occasionally a bit raw in places, but for talent and athletic ability, and the quality of his passing he's already well ahead of any other centre in the league in my opinion. Cudjoe probably being next on the list.

Keith Senior's handling skills were not in Watkins' class, but he understood the game, knew when to pass and most of all was such a nightmare when he ran with the ball that defenders inevitably got sucked in to try to stop him which meant he offloaded to wingers (or inside runners - often Danny McGuire in 2004) in space. Ablett plays centre the same way (not as well, but similar in style). Moon is a very different type of player, and that means Hall has to adapt to a different kind of service. Both of them will need to work on it over the off season.

As I said previous post, the "partnership" has only not worked in terms of the number of tries Hall has scored. How many tries have come from that partnership (Hall and Moon) in comparison to other seasons?

Irrelevant unless you can say how many times Hardaker fed Hall.
I don't recall it was very often, Hardaker had a tendency to forget the winger and go himself, plus Hall was very often being tightly marked anyway.
Few people thought Hardaker was a centre and he played wing for Featherstone on the few times I watched him in the Championship, so that's understandable.

With Moon he loves receiving the ball in space (which strong running centre wouldn't?!) but, for me, he never really makes the most of that space. He runs arms open, like he might do some damage but he never looks quite assure of what's 'on' in terms of pass/take on the man. I can see why some have mentioned the 'panic pass' of his. Needs working on. BJB would probably make more out of these balls as his much quicker pace would get him in a tighter space quicker, compared to Hall when that limited window of opporunity may close.

It's very relevant. He might have gone himself, but he also scored plenty tries. The measurement should be on the return from the partnership, not the return on one player.

How many tries did Hall/Hardaker or Hall/Moon score in releation to Hall/Ablett? If the return is similar then the job is done correctly, regardless of what number Hall has.

Leaving aside the gibberish nature of that sentence; the whole discussion has been about Moon's quality of service to Hall. Do you think we can discuss that topic without discussing Hall?

So, essentially, you've finally agreed with what I said. Moon is a good, dangerous player who hasn't utilized Hall as well as previous left centres at leeds have?

Glad you got there in the end even if it was hard work.