Badwagon? that sounds fun



I do think McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield have another 3-4 years in them, that's just my opinion, I never said anything about Senior, Donald & Ali still doing it in 3-4 years as they are all that bit older.

I expect us to finish higher next year, this year we have had a lot more injuries than normal, we've also been very patchy with form but have beaten wire x2, hull x2, Wigan & Saints (all the teams above us) in the last few months, I don't think it's the end of an era just a very patchy year.

I think our most likely spot is 4th, with 3rd still possible. Can't see us losing more games than the teams below us TBH

Honest question here, who would you say are our top 5 performers this year?

I personally would say, Peacock, Buderus, Kylie, Eastwood, ( I couldn't say with some confidence a 5th, but have been suprised by Ambler).

Peacock, Buderus, Kylie are all at the back end of their careers. Buderus and Kylie won't be here for 2012, and you will probably need a wheelchair and stairlift to keep Peacock going. That does not fill me with confidence for next year.

Eastwood if rumours come true wont be here either. IMO that's 4 of this years top performers declining, not going forward.

I make no secret of my admiration for Sinfield, none whatsover, but this has been by far and away his worst season personally, since he made his debut. This is a player that I consider we can not win without, yet his decline this year is signifcant. Not finished, but declined.

Of the other regular players, IMO only Bailey can say with some confidence that he has had a better season individually than the previous one.

What is it that makes you so confident that these players can not only get back to what they were for next year, but can actually improve, which is what you are relying on?

I think given the talk of teamspirit and loyalty at the end of last season, it needs to work both ways. It doesn't send out a good message to say we want you to play for this club for less than you could get elsewhere for the prime of your career, then we'll bin you once you start to get old.

there's more to building a successful team than getting the most talented group of players together

It's a fair point. But the club are in the entertainment business, not a charity.

Will they therefore be honest enough to tell the fans and the sponsors that unfortunately in order to reward players for previous achievements we will have to accept a huge decline in what we will produce for a couple of years?

I don't think they need to improve as they are already good enough to win it as proved over the last few years, I think they need to get back to our "normal" form and players can suffer periods of poor form and return without it being terminal decline. I also think that it's very hard to keep up the same consistent level of performance for 4 seasons especially when the side has been so unsettled with injuries.

No doubt that many of our players have been poor this year but IMO the outlook is not as dark as some think.

The current squad (or the majority of it) have done what only 1 other club has done in the history of the game by winning 3 consecutive titles. I think that deserves a bit of patience and loyalty by the club after one mediocre season (which given a couple of good performances at the correct time could turn out even better than the previous 3 seasons!).

The teams above us still have a lot of questions against them. Wigan have lost their 2 biggest games of the season (us in CC and Saints at home), Warrington have yet to prove they can beat Leeds, Saints or Wigan, and Hull have to prove they can cope without Long. Only Saints have any evidence that they can cope in high pressure games and they are decimated by injuries.

There is a lot of knee jerking going on here over a poor performance which could still have resulted in a win, following two extremely difficult fixtures in a row. As someone said it's only July FFS!

If that were a given then maybe, but I don't think that a huge decline is around the corner, we may not win much over the next few years, or we may do. No-one has a crystal ball here.

we will get a top 4 finish and we have a good a chance as any if we get some bodies back. wigan and wire have been relativly injury free,lets see how they cope if they get a sudden glut of injuries as us and saints have all season.
there is a massive over reaction by some about this season although with so many out of contract for next season i would have tried to freshen things up with a couple of changes

The problem is who out of the OOC players would you release?

Donald - proven himself to be one of the top wingers in SL
Senior - maybe if Watkins hadn't suffered such a serious injury but there is no way to know how long it will be until he fully recovers
Buderus / Diskin - it appears that the coaching staff still aren't fully sold on McShane, and if they are intent on using the 2 hooker policy these needed to be signed up
Kylie - no other prop in the club offers what he does
Ali - again offers something totally different to the other 2nd rowers at the club.

To replace these with similar players would IMO cost more than it would to re-sign the existing players and you risk upsetting the special atmosphere at the club which has resulted in the success of the last few years.

That's all well and good, and nobody is arguing about =#FF0040this season, it's next that is been talked about, and how this year's highlighted what could occur next year.

Or alternatively next year we could go injury free and win all 4 trophies.

I have more than enough faith in the club to make the right decisions. They seem to have been doing a good job the last couple of years.

Every season at some point we have a spell where fans on here slag off the club's recruitment and come October look slightly foolish, so please forgive me for being a bit less hasty in my judgement.

i would have let senior go. been a legend in the game but next season would be one to far imo

The problem with that is how do you replace him? It appears that Watkins is earmarked to be our next left centre and this season he seemed to be getting the first team experience to allow him to take over that role.

However, his injury has given us a dilemma. If he fully recovers by the start of next season and we had released Senior all well and good. If we release Senior and he doesn't fully recover we are short in the centres. The other alternative is to sign a stop gap relacement, which will be difficult to get quality if they know they are only there until Watkins recovers.

The decision they have taken IMO is the right one. Keep Senior for an extra year, give Watkins chance to fully recover and then phase him in over the course of next year. If he doesn't fully recover then at least at the end of next year we know we need to recruit. And to be fair, although Senior has declined he's still one of the top centres in SL.

Wasn't Smith the centre last year in our GF winning season?

Wasn't he right centre?



In all seriousness I think that was more of a stop gap replacement in itself and Smith is a much better winger / full back than centre.

But by resigning Donald, and the possible return of BJB, where's the fit?

He would have been a far better option than Senior for that centre spot whilst we see if Watkins is the player we think he might be.

Smith left the club last year so cannot have been in the plans for any position, I think the re-signing of Smith this year was more for covering injuries which he is still doing now for Webb.

While carrying one of his own.

I thought we were talking about 2011 again.

I'm not talking about any particular year just that I don't think the signing of Smith was for the long term replacement of Senior.

Neither do I, I think Watkins was Senior's long term replacement. But as Watkins is not ready, Smith would have been a better option than Senior for next year whilst he is.

That's true but Leeds (and this particular group of players as you say more or less) is the only club to win 3 consecutive titles that were decided after a league campaign and a play-off series.

Not sure if that can be judged to be any better or worse than what Wigan achieved in the early to mid 90's as it's a relatively different Era for the sport with full-time, salary capped squads. In those years Wigan only managed to add the end of season Premiership Trophy once in a row for instance. Of course Wigan added many Challenge Cups to their Championships and Regal Trophies not forgetting the odd Lancashire Cup (1 from 4) until it was disbanded.

the entertainment business or trophy business , most people seem happy to watch crap on & off (up to a third of the games)if it leaves enough petrol for grand final win.

Were Wakefield and Hull in the entertainment business on Saturday night?

Thankfull Steve Ganson still is so all wasn't lost.