Obviously I wasn't there today,but I will be at Wembley,so I can only go on what people say about the game today.I have looked on the Wigan board ,but couldnt make a statement cos I am banned,not bothered about that,and to be honest they have not been on here much either,but I have read several statements from their people about the referee gifting Leeds tries,but Not once have read one thing about the last years cup final and the things that went against Leeds.Things even themselves out,and oh by the way they have not won the GF yet

Yesterday was fantastic (as was the WCC match).....BUT if the team is capable of such performances "when it matters" then supporters [udo[/u have the right to criticise and pour scorn on some of the lacklustre, pathetic efforts elsewhere these last couple of seasons.

If those matches don't "matter" then why should they "matter" to paying supporters ?

The criticisms remain valid.

Indeed.
I find the simple solution is to not attend Super League games until the real season begins (unless there is a freebie involved)

All credit to Leeds for their performance yesterday, but it shouldn't be used to disguise the fact that performances at that level have become fewer and further between in 2012 than at any time since probably 2003.

How many more does this Leeds side have in them this year?

It was t' pack that won it....all (apart from JJB sadly) were awesome. Delaney and Bailey (def a back rower in the Ben Harrison mould we should always start with against the big packs ) stood out for me....

But how often indeed can we expect this ?

The roiginal poster is spot on.

Fans aren't discerning cuistomers. They support the Rhinos by accident of birth or parentage. There's no doubt that for the last ten seasons those fans have been very lucky with the successes of the team they have been allowed to reflect in. But, going all the way back to the vitriol Tony Smith received you would be hard pressed to think those fans have enjoyed a truly halcyon period. The greatest in the history of the club.

Is it appreciated? Not be many. They post opinions with some sense of entitlement that they should see Leeds play like the 1982 Kangaroos every week. They can rarely appreciate the effort shown by players in defeat and don't appear to be able to enjoy a game of rugby if the standard set by Leeds doesn't meet their criteria of quality.

Imagine if these supporters had been born in Hunslet, Swinton, Salford or, god forbid Castleford. No doubt they will still be rabid fans of the team they adopted by chance.

Many of the fans of the Rhinos are so lacking in the qualilties displayed by the team.

Do they deserve to follow the greatest team in Leeds RL history? No, many of them deserve to have to follow Rochdale for a season or two. Then they can come back and, perhaps, be a little more appreciative of what they've witnessed these last ten years.

well said,but I am afraid that is not only Leeds Rhino's who have those kind of fans.The Philadelphia Phillies have had a similar successful period in tandem with Leeds rhinos and have had a poor season this season they have had 4 key men out most of the year,and Ryan Howard the big hitter just coming back getting booed,by the bandwagoners because he is getting struck out.Then 5 minutes later when he hits a walk off home run they cheer him!just reminded me of over the years leeds rl have been jeered then come back and won then its cheers.Cnt they sometimes just enjoy the game?

Nice piece of self righteous preaching there G1. I take it you consider yourself to be one of the deserving few?

If you supported Leeds when Simon Irving was our strike threat, or when Patrique was throwing hospital passes to Gary Rose. If you saw Nathan Piccis one contribution, or Ed Rombo or Paul Cooks debut, or the Gibbons or Marvyn or any number of Leeds sides that just made you wince then I reckon you deserved Leeds years of success, and appreciated them. If you have never attended a Sunday league game in the winter then I don't think you can appreciate how GOOD this side is because you have nothing at the other end of the spectrum to compare them with. You can only really compare them with how fantastic they once were. And that's hardly fair.

I was lucky enough to grow up watching players like John Holmes at their best, and the two Wembley wins in the Seventies still rank right up there as some of my greatest sporting moments.
On the flip side of that were the barren/bridesmaid years, poor signings, over paid signings, and never actually winning anything, the Yorkshire Cup win against Cas at Elland Road was actually a special occasion for me!
I am still in a state of disbelief, that my team, the team i have watched all my life, are so good now..yes i get frustrated at the inconsistent league form shown over the last couple of years...but I am so proud to call myself a Rhino, I feel honoured to be watching players like Sinfield and Peacock, Burrow and Maguire..their desire, humility, and talent may never be matched again.
I for one am revelling in this era of winners, because that's what this team are, winners. I dread the day when this team disbands, but through thick and thin i will be there shouting them on, and call me naive, but i actually trust Gary Hetherington to continue building our great club, the next generation is already upon us, Ward, Watkins, Hardaker, Hall are amongst the best of todays young players.

the thing is, the last couple of seasons,last 7/8 games apart, a lot of the games have been dull, even boring. not just leeds i'm struggling to recall more than 3 or 4 good games on sky this year.
i don't blame the clubs its the system at fault.
for the last couple of years the senior players at leeds have played around 35/38 games and only had a month off in the year. this is ridiculuous and you can't expect players to perform week in week out.
there is no doubt for me leeds are trying to stay as fresh as they can for the seasons end, and again, i can't fault it. thats when honours are handed out.
until SL goes down to 11 teams you won't get the intensity week in week out. its impossible. i won't ever fault the team for effort but like others i'm wondering if i want to spend another £500+ watching week in week out against the likes of salford and widnes

Do you even need to ask?



I started watching regularly as the great team of the 70s was getting beyond it's best.

Like Otley Rhino, the highlight of the first 15 years I spent supporting this club was a Yorkshire Cup win.

I deserve this team not because I earned my stripes in the 80s and 90s but because I appreciate them and understand how fortunate I am to witness what they're doing.

Although I understand what your saying and to an extent I agree with you but have you thought about those fans who came to this sport and Leeds in say 2004/5 and have known nothing but success? They have nothing to compare to - their point of reference is an all conquering Leeds team with wall to wall internationals and where winning silverware is the norm.

If winning is all you know, you can see how it could be a disappointment for some when Leeds don't.

Appreciation isn't the tone that comes to mind when you look back at your prolonged Ian Kirke witch hunt G1. Double standards?

Or does success only elevate certain players above criticism?

It seems to me that Gareth is almost embarrassed by the success of this team - in Gareth's eyes the fact the club has consistently under performed should be the basis to compare this side, what has how Syd Hynes played has got anything to do with the modern day I don't know?

Most fans are judging the current side by the heights they have previously achieved - the fact they are able to win the comp is a reflection on the comp as much as it about the team - how far would the 2004 side win the comp by?

This is a side in decline - not unsurprisingly - and the consistency of their performances reflects that. To suggest this on here is seen as a form of treason by some notable posters. Most are only pointing out the obvious.

Something you've been saying since 2006 yet the titles keep rolling in.

You, in particular, could do with spending three or our years watching someone like Castleford then you would be appreciate, and deserving, of what we have here at the moment.

My prolonged kirke Witch Hunt?

When did I ever engage in such a thing? Find the last negative comment I made about Kirke.

What you will find is that I, before all others, cottoned on to Kirke's lack of work rate during the 2010 season. I made a few comments on it during that season, less so the season after and not at all this season.

Commenting that an individual player might have been shirking his responsibilities is a very different thing to what most of those undeserving of Rhino fan-hood engage in on here.

I don't recall you being too complimentary to your favourite second row/prop/loose forward during this exchange from earlier this season : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=520742&tsmp=1344265285&start=80 unless being compared to the size of your excretions count.

I don't recall you being too complimentary to your favourite second row/prop/loose forward during this exchange from earlier this season : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=520742&tsmp=1344265285&start=80 unless being compared to the size of your excretions count.

I'll always appreciate what success we've had since Darryl Powell over-hauled the mess Dean Lance left us and what a "special" crop of players we've witnessed in the Blue 'n' Amber during that period.
However IF at any time i think player A ,B or Coach hasn't performed at any given time i'll say as such and also continue to post whatever opinions i have on the squad retention ,recruitment ,selection etc etc.

Quote ="tvoc"I don't recall you being too complimentary to your favourite second row/prop/loose forward during this exchange from earlier this season : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=520742&tsmp=1344265285&start=80 unless being compared to the size of your excretions count.'" Couple of tongue in cheek comments. If that constitutes a witch hunt then it really is PC gone mad..... But, without being unduly modest, I am so wonderful that for many people they can only aspire to comparisons with my effluence.

Quote ="tvoc"I don't recall you being too complimentary to your favourite second row/prop/loose forward during this exchange from earlier this season : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=520742&tsmp=1344265285&start=80 unless being compared to the size of your excretions count.'" Couple of tongue in cheek comments. If that constitutes a witch hunt then it really is PC gone mad..... But, without being unduly modest, I am so wonderful that for many people they can only aspire to comparisons with my effluence.

If people are claiming that the team we have now are in decline, they should consider the team of 2000. Lance inherited a bunch of has-beens who the previous coach sorted into an unbelievable team capable of epic moments - but which was never going to be a long-term proposition, especially when the one player at the heart of everything already had begun to want out.

Although not great, Lance was in a more difficult position than he ever gets credit for.

Quote ="G1"Couple of tongue in cheek comments. If that constitutes a witch hunt then it really is PC gone mad.....'" I don't think they would constitute a witch-hunt in 2012 but there used to be a weekly Opta thread and you would often be found commenting on Kirke's underwhelming (in your opinion) contributions and it wasn't always a pre-requisite that he had to have played in the featured game. Here viewtopic.php?f=17&t=488219&tsmp=1344273926 and here viewtopic.php?f=17&t=507147 for example are what appear to be thinly veiled negative references to said player in games he wasn't a part of. Although I'm sure you'll say you cannot control how your comments are interpreted by others and it says more about them than it does about your goodself.

Quote ="G1"Couple of tongue in cheek comments. If that constitutes a witch hunt then it really is PC gone mad.....'" I don't think they would constitute a witch-hunt in 2012 but there used to be a weekly Opta thread and you would often be found commenting on Kirke's underwhelming (in your opinion) contributions and it wasn't always a pre-requisite that he had to have played in the featured game. Here viewtopic.php?f=17&t=488219&tsmp=1344273926 and here viewtopic.php?f=17&t=507147 for example are what appear to be thinly veiled negative references to said player in games he wasn't a part of. Although I'm sure you'll say you cannot control how your comments are interpreted by others and it says more about them than it does about your goodself.

Deserving - your arrogance knows no bounds.

This team has been in decline since 2004 - the fact it keeps winning titles is as much a reflection in the competition as it is on the team, something I did mention on the previous post.

You are the only person who is suggesting the quality on the field should be ignored because the standards at Leeds aren't dropping as fast as the rest of the league!!

2011 in the main was garbage and 2012 isn't any better the fact that some are prepared to comment doesn't make them any less deserving

On player witch hunts - your constant digs at McGuire, one this week, your intransigence on Buderus, your constant tirade about Kirke says much about your very blinkered views on all matters Leeds and how you have favourites who you seem incapable of seeing fault in.