I sort of hope you're wrong.

I seriously doubt Coach McDermott is leaving either way.

While I don't think we'll be quite as bad as Friday at the weekend I can't really see past another Leeds win.
At least if we get knocked out the CC again and only scrape into the 8 Agar might be shown the door.

I would never want us to lose.

And to be honest even if we lose McDermott is going nowhere

Same here. When we lost last year I left Wembley thinking 'I'm not going to a CC final ever again' ...of course that was a knee jerk, but next time I'll probs jump off a bridge.

We do have another chant. I can never quite make out what we're singing. It sounds a lot like "Have you ever seen McGuire win the league", but it can't be that because Danny McGuire has won the league on 4 different occasions, and Michael Maguire won it last year.

Perhaps this handy table, and your username could help us work out what the missing word is...

What I love is that ok Wire have picked up the cup the last 2 years, but the only top team they beat in that run was Leeds in the final. yes, they smashed us on the day, and were worthy winners of the final, but its hardly a mark of a truely top team when you have only beaten 1 top team on the way to 2 pieces of silverware.

That for me is why the CC remains a nice to have trophy, and not one that is indicative of a class team.

I'd go with that.

I'm no football fan but it's like the sad Leeds United fans that claim they're better than Manchester because they beat them 1-0 last time they played. Seriously deluded if they genuinely believe beating them in a match is all it takes to make them the 'better team'.

so wigan in the 09 semi doesnt count as a big team then?

You would rather not get to the final in the first place, very strange.

I would also say you are seriously deluded if you do not realize it's said tongue in cheek, waccoe!

Good job I said it's only the ones that genuinely believe it that are deluded then isn't it.

This reading lark will catch on one day I tell ya!

Not at the time no

Knocking Wigan out last year was a decent achievement though.

are you tapped? wigan have and will always be a big team in RL, even though that pained me to say it. You could also then say that we beat a leeds team on the decline?, or that leeds are no longer a big team? Thought not, so i stand by my original statement.

Leeds were a team who had big game pedigree and at the time were 3 times champions. Had also knocked out Wigan and St Helens along the way.

Wigan when you played them were a team who had not appeared in a final since 2004, had not picked up a trophy since 2002, and had finished out of the top 4 in the previous 4 seasons.

But on the other hand their name was Wigan so they must have been good

and had the same players barring deacon as there GF winning team.

What does that matter? I'd have thought that your club in particular shows that until you get a decent coach, you can have all the players in the world and not be a top club.

Are you saying without Tony Smith at the helm you'd have won in 2009? Actually, with the tin pot opposition you faced you probably still would have

yes but we were handicapped with jimmy lowes as assistant

. There is a difference between a big club and a successful club, and im afraid wigan are and always have been a big club. In 09 wigan were 1 game from OT when saints knocked them out, so maybe for a bit of fortune they could have played you lot in the 09 GF with noble in charge. Would they have been a big team then?

If, could have been, would they? maybe.....you see where I'm going with this. Because if Leeds had played like they played when we met you in the league last year and if you had played like you played when we met you in the league last year we would have lifted the CC. If Leeds had not lost McGuire and we had managed to take Wigan at home we could possibly (based on their average performance) have beaten Saints again and won the double.

But of course none of this actually happened.

thats not actually the argument. The argument is if wigan were a big club in 2009 or not.=#000000IF you read a bit further up you =#000000COULD have seen this was the case then =#000000MAYBE you would have had something more constructive? Do you see where this is going?

Whilst I admire your way with words,I would expect our team to at least show some sort of reaction after that last shambles.If they don`t we deserve all we get.

No, not the 09 version of Wigan.

Depends on your definition of big club. New ground and good crowds apart no, they werent

ok, well going off both your comments then i suppose leeds stopped being a big club at the end of 2010. Oh well you had a good run eh boys!

We're that big that our results don't matter.

We're like the landed gentry and you're the lottery winner trying to curry favour with us. Your new found riches don't impress us though.