Did you not pull out any of your karate moves on the 70 year old B&Q assistant?

Is that Matthew Kelly on the left?

Matthew Kelly denies everything.

I think Mc_Laren Field's a recognised expert in the field of pond creation

Indeed, I am available for consultancy on any issue that involves pond construction, and destruction.

Ah, but you can build the South Stand from behind y'see - there wasn't the room to do that with the Carnegie.

There is enough "Life" on this site to fill any pond McF cares to build

is this a veiled reference to David Bywater's antics on the playing field?

I hope they don't change the grass - too old for another go

I am back... after a spending the last two days talking to god on the great white telephone! I blame tvoc, as he was dodgy at the beginning of the week and I must have caught it off his posts. That, or it could be having a 13 month old in the house who is an incubus of general low-grade infections!

I am allowing myself a slight feeling of smugness at this news, I must admit!

Thanks to rhinoms and G1... I love you too!

Not according to the CEO:

[i"The plan is to do it as part of the South Stand development," added Hetherington. "When that is being carried out, =#FF0000the pitch will become a building site anyway. We are committed to redeveloping the South Stand in 2010 and the pitch will come on the back of that."[/i



Bloody typical, do you not think I have enough guilt to deal with at home already.





Just waiting for the announcement of the undersoil heating going in and Leeds not having a home game until Easter in 2011 for the feeling to be complete.

Actually, to be fair to Andy tvoc, it would be possible to build a new South Stand from the back BUT it would impractical and more importantly add time and cost. You can get away with a much smaller crane if erecting from the front rather than the rear and the heavy pre-cast terrace units would be difficult to lift and put in to position 'over the top'. This would reduce the number of possible crane lifts per-day reasonably significantly and therefore add time to the programme, which equals more cost.

I think they would have come to the conclusion to replace the pitch (or possibly it was always planned) at the same time as the new stand anyway, but given the stick they are getting about the pitch, they have clearly give it some more thought and even if it was always planned, it was a good idea to announce it now rather than later and then continue to get criticised for it.



Well I would think they would put in a new undersoil heating system but I must be honest, I don't know a great deal about grass (other than it is dormant in cold weather and does not like being covered up) and these new super-grasses (no pun intended), so if this new 3G grass they are looking (I thought 3G was an international mobile telecommunications standard!) can live with frost and/or being covered up for weeks at a time, they might not need it?

As for us not playing at home for the first couple of months of the season, it will not be long until my smugness is complete!

Quick question
Given that the old undersoil heating system was disconnected because it would have been dangerous to spike the pitch ... are modern undersoil systems fork-resistant?

I think the main problem was that after 30 years the soil had baked hard and so needed deep spiking rather than the normal garden fork depth spiking - wasn't it ?

Watch out for a "grass tax" at HQ (similar to EHT - Ellery Hanley Tax - introduced to pay his monstrous salary).

Yup, pretty much IIRC. Combined with the old undersoil being quite close to the surface it made deep spiking impractical, and therefore hindered the drainage.

Question for the learned Mr Armadillo, could they as well as installing undersoil heating instal a ground heat pump system to provide hot water for parts of the ground?
Thereby improving the club's green credentials & reducing energy costs?
That together with Solar or PV panels on the new Southstand plus rainwater & greywater recycling could (should) all be included & might provide some green funding towards the ovarall costs of the scheme.
The Rhinos trumpets its community work this would add further to that.

That would suggest there is actually some grass to feed .... Or does sand also need nourishment ?

Having said that, the heating was installed in the early 60s, Leeds didn't have much problems with pitch conditions for the first 30-odd years of its life.

Might be that the undersoil heating issue is a smokescreen for the damage done to the playing surface by the lodgers ?

Once again, I am no expert on U/S heating systems but I understand that our old system was the second system ever to be installed in the UK (after Everton) and used wire as a direct heat conductor to heat the surrounding soil and thus keep the snow and ice of the pitch and it was either on or off!

Modern systems all now use water pipes under the pitch, so effectively they pump hot water around a network of armoured plastic pipes under the pitch (same as underfloor heating in housing), the keep the snow and ice off. As I understand it, these pipes are laid a reasonable distance below the surface and they are not laid in soil/sand any more but a stone or synthetic granular drainage layer and then the soil and grass above this, so they do not need to spike this low anyway. It is also controlled by a series of temperature sensors placed in 'sectors' under the pitch meaning that not only does it work automatically when required but also it varies it's temperature to suit and also it is possible for it to be on in one area of the pitch and not another. So if it is a cold but sunny day and one area of the pitch gets sun and warms up, but other areas do not as they are still in shade, it stays on where required. The soil baking does not happen because of this modern control and of course they don't put soil directly around the pipes any more.

All these are possible and a ground heat pump may be a way to keep the bills down and possibly even supply partially heated water for the new u/s heating system when required. The pay back on these is quite short and it would suit intermittent energy use of stand & u/s heating.

When it comes to Solar and PV I am not sure it would pay, as the stand energy usage is intermittent and therefore pay-back could be decades. Mounting them on the South Stand to provide energy/heated water for the main offices and day to day operational area would be an idea but I would save that idea for the new North Stand roof which is closer to the current offices and day to day facilities.

Now grey water recycling from sinks to flush the toilets might work but I would think that the amounts of grey water generated would be small. You can't put grey water on the pitch because of the soaps/detergents. Rainwater recycling is of course a very good idea and would like to think that the club would collect the rainwater both for use in flushing toilets and also the watering of the pitch in summer. It is just the cost of installing a big enough tank and pump system, maybe under the new stand, and that would be a winner for me. It would also mean that if we got a situation where water became short in the summer months, the club could continue to water the pitch.

A series of small wind turbines mounted on the stand would also be a good idea and that would make more sense than Solar or PV and return cost is not as long.

After last Friday night the under floor heating needs to be in the South stand at least the players get to run about. I just hope sunday is not a repeat (weather wise repeat of the game result is ok) we had last time we played storm never been so wet and cold in my life (and that includes fording waist high streams on exercise in january)

Thanks for the response IA.
My main point was to hope that the club, its architects, M&E consultants & the council (as the planning authority) would seriously consider all the green options.
Because of it's orientation the roof of the southstand could contain a vast PV array that would generate electricity all year round for the club's own use & resale to the National Grid.
If they don't take the opportunity now it will be lost for another 40 years.