Agreed, but we knew that Senior was in decline so why sign Delaney if he's not going to be a gamebreaker. Actually scrub that, he was a gamebreaker in the Cup final, sadly not in our favour.

Hardworking, but very average. Incidentally I don't blame him, it was an error on GH's part to take him in the first place.

Delaney was an underwhelming signing when he was announced. Moving him to second row may well get the best out of him since he's contracted for another two (?) years, but its basically an admission of a major stuff up, as that's not what he was signed for.

We have looked a tired team almost from the start of the season. We have two big pluses moving towards next year - we're unlikely to have many players on international duty in the off-season, and we won't have the hysterical focus on the WCC.

I really couldn't understand (and still don't) why the club as a whole got so wound up by a meaningless (but nice to win) game, losing games and having no form in the league around it. Wigan showed the value of momentum and confidence that comes from a strong start.

I do hope that this off-season is used to re-evaluate the structure that Leeds play. We should not struggle to create tries even without McGuire (or at other times in the past Burrow or Sinfield). Similarly, we should not struggle so much in the pack without Peacock. Not saying those players don't make a difference, but our overall gameplan and approach has to be more flexible. Sts have shown its possible to compete against anyone without their starting halfbacks. Given their relatively slow outside backs that says a heck of a lot about the way they play.

Bluey has done exceptionally well to date in terms of carrying on the good work largely with the squad Smith had, although the Challenge Cup failure was not a good one.

This next season will be a huge test for him and Leeds management generally. Whilst they have extended contracts to a lot of older players, it needs to be made clear that they will be treated pretty ruthlessly next season in terms of on-field performance. There'll be no point in playing an 'old head' just as a security blanket if they're not going to be around the following year.

i would agree that we had an attack around offloads and support hence the huge roles danny, robby and brent used to play in finishing. But never really structure imo, unless you call support play structure.. idk though.

I remeber we used to have such long range potentcy which seems a thing of the past now. Score a bucket load of tries from our own half, usually via teams doubling up on keith even in our 20m which created space on his inside and outside for your Bai's/Danny/Brents of the world. You could add a fit Ali to that list who operated on the left which made us unplayable at times. It used to be Seniors outside man had a ticket to 25+ tries a year. I remeber calling out the lack of structure for the tough games in the red zone up the middle, even under Smith. We had tools out wide to unlatch teams though, especially the Ali/Senior combo.

Now neither centre has any long range capability and rarely send their wingers through. Close to the line senior still has his power but no pace makes him managable for teams. Delaney has been well short of spark and looks more like a McKenna than anything else. With nothing coming out wide we rely too much on macguire to finsih or create something. Take him out of the equation and we're left truly exposed for the lack of organisation in the red zone, and devoid of talent in the 3/4's. Maybe an organising 7 has been missing for some years and Sinny has filled some of that role?? I think rob has what it takes but he needs to be shackled down a bit and drilled by the coaching staff. To quote macca he needs to play games wearing a dinner jacket and focus on bringing others into the game through organisation and structure, not be looking to duck and jive everythime he gets it. Coupled with at least 1 elite centre at the club a lot of things could get remedied in the transfer department

this basically. I should have read the whole thread before I poooasted but you talk sense as usual.

we havent won the superleague title since 96....have you been trapped in a time warp or something...

What a totally pathetic post, from someone I would not normally associate with the pathetic posters.



Care to give previous examples where failure expectations have been expressed?........ thought not.

Just grow up, and leave the bottom kissing to the normal.

I have said for a while that Leeds do not play to a set pattern. It has been touched upon by plenty on here too. When everyone is fit it works pretty well. However you take a couple of players out through injury, and a couple more on bad form and it looks a lot shakier.

Compare that to Saints, who play a very structured game. When they lose a player, be it a forward, or a back, they have someone who can come in and fit into the game plan. Every man knows their role in the team, and knows the structure. Their players are good, but its the structure they play to that is the key to how they remain so consistent. It may be that it is also the reason they have failed for the last 3 years, in that when they have met us in the GF we have been fully fit, fully fired up, and playing to a game plan of our own, designed to nullify theirs. I think that our plan relies too much on everything being right, which can fall apart very easily.

I don;t think we need wholesale changes, and I will be interested to see what changes occur when McDermott is on-board. Will we see more structure, more young players in the team. I expect McDermott to be head coach for 2012, so he will surely have a large say in first team matters next season.

On the whole, I think a new centre (which could be watkins), and a top line front rower will improve us no end. I think we have players to come into the team that can improve it, and we should have rotated better towards the end of the year. If a top class organiser became available i'd be tempted, as Burrow has been poor this year, but he is capable of doing that role, as shown a few years ago for GB.

The likes of BJB, Watkins, Clarkson, Pitts, Ambler need to really step up so they can replace the players who will likely be leaving at the end of next year such as Senior, leuluai, Lauiti'iti, Webb.

a game too far , a season too far especially with the injuries.

hope we can sign a few players and bring some through too next year

three in a row was amazing in salary cap era

I agree with much of what others have pointed out on here and other threads.

Player recruitment is a difficult one though.

What has served us well in the recent past has been promoting excellent young talent from within and a sprinkle of NRL talen where required.

However from watching a lot of the U20's this year I'm not sure if the talent is there,certainly not to the same extent it was before.

The U20's have played a poor standard of Rugby this year especially. Not sure if that is down to some of the identified 'Talent' like Manning,Coady,Amor etc being loaned out due to the new age qualifications that came in this year at the level under first team or poor coaching?

Perhaps GH feels the latter and that is why Poaching has been shown the door?

I think the club may have realised they were short of talent at the next level down which is why they went into the National League market and bought Coady and Amor and immediately loaned them out along with the likes of Manning to play and hopefully develop more from playing senior rugby with a lot of hard pros in NL1 as opposed to u20 level?

However I don't think any of those named three have set the world alight at NL1 from what i've seen/read?

Pre season I had high hopes for Amor and still hope he will progress but since a reasonable debut on Boxing Day he has looked poor in the couple of 1st team chances he was given and even back out on loan/dual registration to where he was awesome in 2009 they have not seen anywhere near the same level of performance he was displaying week in week out before signing for us.

Manning also looked to have a bright future here but i'm sure the Fev fans for the most part have not rated him that highly and there were times where he was not being selected because his form was poor?

I know these NL1 signings can be risks and are nearly always a work in progress with a hope/realisation of what they might become so all is not lost yet.

The alternative then is to sign overseas or pay a transfer fee for SL players.

The first option has had some great sucess but for every success there is a Mark O'Neil and this season,although his on field performances when fit were great,Eastwood is going back home which shows the risk of going into the NRL market as you never know how the player and his family will settle,look at Eastwood and Dallas Johnson and the Wakefield Prop whose name escapes me (Tronk?) but only played about 8 matchses but even then,half way through the season he was still top of the Opta metre maker stats.

As Bluey said after the game Leeds refuse to speculate on transfers and there is hardly ever any gossip in the RL press about who we are in for,certainly nothing like with other teams but i'm also left wondering sometimes whether we end up getting our first choice or making do? The club will obviously always say they got their number one choice.

I know for a fact we were in discussions with Ryan Atkins but we pulled out at his wage demands so he went to Wire and we then signed Delaney.

Delaney has got some stick on here but I like him. ''Does what it says on the tin''. People who watched the NRL told us he was a steady eddy no nonsence hard working player not a Gasnier or Inglis and that is exactly what we got.

If people wanted speed and more of a gutting edge then maybe most would have preferred Atkins although at the time i'm sure many on here were saying we shouldn't touch Atkins with a barge pole?

I bet some of those posters are the same berating Delaney now?

It also seemed to be te concensus that our number one forward target was Frank Pritchard and then we announce Eastwood instead. With hindsight we'd have probably been better with Pritchard (assuming he'd have settled) given that we've seen too little of Eastwood before his early departure,although i'm sure had he stayed he would/could have become a legend over here for us.

The other option of paying transfer fees or signing out of contract SL players seems to have served us well but doesn't seem to have been over used in recent times? The ones I remember are Peacock,Ellis,Poaching ,Dunneman and they all proved successful

Definitely interesting times ahead. The club have got most things right over a long period of time so we'll have to trust they have it all sussed out again and will talk up a 'big' signing just before the season ticket early bird deadline

The times I've seen Manning on Sky at the business end of the season he's looked one of Featherstone's better players. Not sure how that's reflected over the course of the season mind, not seen enough of him to judge.

I think he's had a decent year tbh and i'm sure he was on a years loan but the last couple of sky games they've reffered to him as a "former" Leeds acadamy player!

Over the last 3 yrs we have won the tiltle, had to start the season early to accommodate the WCC game, had varied runs in the CC cup & also had to contend with key players playing for England at the end of a long difficult season.

To me all these things could contribute to where we are now. Coulpled with bad injuries/form & player recruitment.

Hopefully the squad can have a well deserved break. I would imagine maybe only Hall & Sinfiled will be selected for England. Therefore a majority of the squad can have a good break & then get stuck into a decent pre-season which they haven't had for a couple of years. Bluey & Brian Mac can then look forward to a refreshed squad. Hopefully they can add 1 or 2 new players to the squad & welcome back BJB from a successfull loan spell & Watkins from a tough injury. I would like to see a quality replacement for Eastwood but don't believe there's any decent options in the market so I fear we'll end up with a 30+ Aussie/Kolpak stiff.

I look at Saints/Wigan/Wire & see that this season they had good juniors out in the championship who came back into there squads when needed & performed well. Could this be the case for us? We have Worrall, Amour, Coady & Manning all to come back from long term loans & push for a place next year. We also have Pitts & Ambler on the fringes.

I won't resort to the kind of silly abuse you're directed at DHM but suffice to say my recollection is at various stages you've written the team off at each stage of the previous three title winning seasons.

What is the old saying about giving a thousand monkeys a thousand typewriters?

The rest of SL wish. Of course you meant 2006 so we'll let you off.



Just on this specific point you appear to be including Saints' first past the post Championship of 1996 as a Grand Final appearance and win which of course it wasn't.

I really shouldn't get into convesations with children, and I will refrain in future.

But would you care to put something where your mouth is?

Can you show where in any of the title winning seasons I have written off the team for that year? Infact it was only 2007 where I offered to double your bet with snake eater that we would win the title. Even this year I have said all along we would win the title.

My views have been made clear for 18 months, that 2011 would see us challenge for nothing unless we made changes. I think Brian McDermott coming in as assistant is a very positive change and will do well, but we should have released players, and we should have made a couple of quality aquisitions to complement the promotion of youth.

Now, I may well have written off the odd player over the last couple of years, if you are getting mixed up with that, then I can excuse you, but you said the "team.

Why do you keep resorting to personal abuse when your opinion is challenged or disagreed with?

You're playing a dangerous game there Gotcha. You seem to have forgotten that at the end of each season between 2007 and 2009 I brought up threads and posts from posters writing the team off.

Is that really what you;'re asking me to do again?

No you didn't. You brought up threads writing players off, and in the most part brought them up completely out of the context that posters put views on. Or you brought threads up where posters have complained about the way we had been playing after a couple of defeats on the bounce, usually around easter time.

Let's get away from fogknitting here and be clear. You said I had written the team off in each of the titlte winning seasons, making out I had said they would not win the title those years. Have I misunderstood you there? or is that what you are saying? or are you saying that I was one of the posters complaining about the way we were playing as early as Easter in each season?

If you are saying the latter, then I would be man enough to admit I have expressed views of not been satisfied with what I was seeing, even as early as Easter, no problem.

But how can someone who has tipped us for the last 4 seasons to win the title, and even in 2007 (coincidentally a year you are saying I wrote the team off) offered to double your bet against a poster saying we had no chance, be classed as "writing off" the team?

I make no secret of saying we would struggle in 2011 without changes and I have to put up with the ridicule on that if proven wrong, for which I dearly hope I am. But I won't listen to something that is plainly untrue to say I had written them of in "each" of the title winning seasons.

I'm just pleased you managed to post without resorting to personal abuse of other forum users.

Let me review the Gotcha archives and I'll come back to you. Might take a whee while as I have some big boy busy work to do this week.

Before you do that, is there no chance of you answering the questions I raised?

I would hate to have the board ruined by petty "you said" "I said" (for which I accept blame), hence why I asked the question to clear it up first.

That way if your saying it the way I was man enough to admit to, then you would not need to ruin your working week, because I'll just say fair enough and leave it.

Gareth ... Your efforts to get one over somebody else and gain some self perceived superiority astound me.
Why do you feel such need ? Why the desire to " play to the gallery " to such an extreme .... digging through past postings ? Does that not smack of pliable to one that is quite evidently intelligent and articulate. What are you hoping to prove ? To whom ?

Those that revere you will always do so regardless.... Those that merely respect you - like I now do (did ) - are more perplexed and think rather less of you when you resort to this, such jejune, behaviour.

Grow up man.

Yes you are right it was not a GF appearance (which makes it 7 GF appearances) the first 2 years of SL were first past the post. Still an impressive record.

I fully exepct this team to come back stronger next season. There are a few older bodies on board now but by no means is this team past it.

IMO Senior depsite his age is still one of our most potent attacking weapons and why people constantly want to put him in the pack is beyond me.

A good replacement for Eastwood, a good run with injuries and we will be there or thereabouts.

I agree he has been pretty good on attack again this season....it's his defence that causes concern... BUT do you really think it wise to depend on him yet again next season....or better to blood his pretender to the throne (Watkins) as much as possible ?
Think it's only suggested he move to cover the second row because he actually seemed to go well there against Hull....and it also won't be quite so critical a position to keep him fit in as there will be more cover for his 'new' position.
We can always slot him back in there at centre if all fails (which won't be such a good thing going forwards).

I will listen to you advice.

Gotcha, you can breath a sigh of relief. Your posts writing the team off will remain in archive as I take heed of nantwich's words of wisdom. I just hope you can also take heed of his post and stop resorting to abuse whenever a poster challenges your opinion.

Good man this deserves respect