Agree on the point, but ever thought that Tvoc is spouting it in order that it does last? We are still in a strong position as a club, and the points tvoc makes could ensure the spell continues rather than stop.

If the club just sits back the way some suggest, you are right, it will definately come to an end this successfull spell.

Calderwood was offered a new deal of 25000 per annum. Almost half of what was being offered to others at the time. It was a poor offer by the club for someone who scored a lot of tries and he did right to look elsewhere.

If that's bang on i've no problem with him "looking elsewhere" then but if that's what the club thought he was worth then i'm surprised.
The reaction in the press etc and bigging himself up was a major mistake imo no player is bigger than the club and i certainly don't think he should of been getting what Mcguire,Sinfield and Burrow etc were getting.
Do you think the TS rumours were true then?

I somehow doubt his replacement will have travelled half way around the world, leaving his extended family and friends behind in order to pick up the contract that was on offer to Mark Calderwood.

Here's the thing that puzzles me, apart from the accent what did Scott Donald bring to the club that Leeds didn't already possess in the locally produced '106 try' Calderwood.

=#FF0000How did Leeds' reputedly 'fair' pay structure grade the incoming and outgoing players?

Both were experienced 1st grade players, Calderwood had England U21 and England 'A' selections (did Donald have anything equivalent from his NRL career?), Calderwood was a season top try scorer and a SL winner (did Donald have anything equivalent from his NRL career?)

The offer to Calderwood (if true) left him with little option but to leave and if he served up a volley in the press he was provoked into doing so by the actions towards him of an indifferent club, all imo of course.

Wasn't Donald signed as a replacement for Marcus Bai before Calderwood turned down his offer? I remember thread after thread on that point at the time.

Re: the timing, it depends if you can decipher the spin coming out of Headingley.

Rhinos land Aussie ace - YEP - 20th June 2005

Rhinos chief executive Gary Hetherington said, “he is a well-known, experienced NRL player. He is someone we have monitored and followed in the past and we spoke with him last year.” At this stage Donald is the only player on the Rhinos’ overseas quota for next year. Hetherington said: " =#FF0000Marcus Bai doesn’t count because he’s from Papua New Guinea and Ali Lauitiiti doesn’t count on the quota either. Chris McKenna has an Irish passport and Willie Poching has come off the quota. Our only quota player this year is Andrew Dunemann and he is leaving at the end of the season.” Donald’s signing effectively ends any prospect of a change of heart over Calderwood’s future, by either player or club. Hetherington said: “=#FF0000Scott is a straight replacement for Mark. With Mark, it needed to be brought to a head, for both the club and player. That is the conclusion we came to last week. We accepted that Mark is leaving and he accepted that we would be going out to find a replacement.”

Rhinos exit for try star Calders - YEP - 15th June 2005

Calderwood explained: “Being a Leeds lad, I have been very proud of playing for my hometown club, especially experiencing Grand Final and World Club Championship success. But I believe in my ability and value as a player. It has been a major decision to turn down the offer, especially when I have enjoyed being part of a new era of success for the club and, particularly, the fans. Whatever the future holds from 2006 onwards, I can promise the Rhinos supporters that I will continue to give 110 per cent on and off the field for the rest of this season as we chase Challenge Cup and Grand Final honours.”

Me too.

What's the obsession with Calderwood?

Correct. Left winger for a left winger.

Bai was only offered another contract after Calderwood and Donald were resolved. Discussions with Donald long pre-dated Calderwood's decison to leave but were tied up in time to claim the club were moving quickly to replace - opportunistic but understandable spin.

When looking at the Calderwood situation, I think it is worth while pointing out that the value of the contract offered to him may well have been influenced by other things away from simply his scoring/playing record.
He had a number of warnings while at the club, regarding his conduct/sporting activities away from the club that could jeopordise his performces/fitness.

I have no idea about the figures, but on the back of the last 7 or 8 years, we cant really complain about how they have managed the cap. We have been treat to some awesome rugby at times, and 4 championships, and it was one hell of a wait for this to come.

Regardless of the ins/outs of players, we've remained within the salary cap at all times and have been more sucessful than ever! Hats off to Mr Hetherington, and long may it continue.

All I can add to this excellent post is "FACT" and "END OF".

Which is precisely why supporters should never assume they =#FF0000know anything with regards to pay scales and their fairness or why players come and go.

At best they're guessing with about 5% of the information.

What gave you that impression/ i was merely voicing an opinion and supporting GH's succesfull recruitment/retaining policy

heard that luke may be on the move but not bradford

I don't know what Wigan paid Calderwood but the one thing I am certain of is that whatever it was they didn't get value for money.

How do you form an opinion on something you know nothing about?

Without knowing any of the details of any of the contracts Leeds players are offered how do you know they are fair.

Care to enlighten us or is it another round of guessing and factless speculation like we had before he happily signed his new deal.

So do you doubt the fairness of these deals?
Do you honestly think that we'd of kept such a quality squad over the years on the back of any unfairness in their contracts or the pay structure?
I'd say the fact of who we've retained/signed over the years indicates perfectly that the system is fair and works.

I would say that it is fair to say that had we not been winning things, these players would have been long gone.

Infact Sinfield confirmed that we have struggled to keep hold of our players, who have put career achievements ahead of money, which they could have got more of elsewhere.

The fact that they could have earned more elsewhere would actually suggest they might not be on fair contracts, rather than suggesting they are fair. We should just be grateful the players chose to put trophies first.

He did indeed comment on the squad putting success first before that extra"few quid" but i seriously doubt they are the worst paid group in the league either.
I don't think it's surprising that with the cap in place that certain players could earn more elsewhere afterall Bradford offered Ellis more than we did but he came here.
I think it's safe to assume that the structure and policies of the club and CEO are as fair and as rewarding as they can be given the restrictions and i'd be happy for more exemptions for homegrown lads on the cap to be brought into practice.

You see, that's exactly what tvoc was talking about with guessing.

Ellis was not offered more by Bradford to go there instead at all. He was offered more by Wakefield to stay there.

The only reason Ellis nearly turned his back on the Leeds deal was because Hetherington went back on the verbal agreeement, regarding the length of the contact and a couple of small issues. Both of which were as per Ellis's agreement at Bradford, and deal offered to Wakefield which they would have preferred.

Are you guessing or is this fact? If fact can you substantiate it?

I seem to recall it being reported that Ellis was offered a more lucrative deal from the Bulls, but that is just my recollection.

That was how i thought it went and it only fell on it's @ss because the bulls players offered to Wakey gave it a big fook you.
I know the Leeds offer didn't increase as per TS instruction.
Whatever the detail i personally think the wage structure GH has implimented at Leeds works just fine and the fact that we have the quality squad we do also indicatse to me that it's as fair as it can be and that the squad are happy to play for their contracts they signed.

Considering I was the one that told everyone on these boards that Ellis had agreed a verbal agreement in the January before the end of December that he signed and the length of contract he was signing, and the exact deal Leeds had agreed with Wakefield, and followed it up by stating he was still coming to Leeds on the very day the media were saying he had signed for Bradford, I will state it as fact.

I have been through this previously and proven myself previously on this one.

He was not offered a more lucrative deal from Bradford, but he was from Wakefield.

Quote ="Gotcha"Considering I was the one that told everyone on these boards that Ellis had agreed a verbal agreement in the January before the end of December that he signed and the length of contract he was signing, and the exact deal Leeds had agreed with Wakefield, and followed it up by stating he was still coming to Leeds on the very day the media were saying he had signed for Bradford, I will state it as fact. I have been through this previously and proven myself previously on this one. He was not offered a more lucrative deal from Bradford, but he was from Wakefield.'" I wasn't around these parts then so i can't be expected to remember such post Am i correct in saying that he signed for the same money originally offered? www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... .912323.jp

Quote ="Gotcha"Considering I was the one that told everyone on these boards that Ellis had agreed a verbal agreement in the January before the end of December that he signed and the length of contract he was signing, and the exact deal Leeds had agreed with Wakefield, and followed it up by stating he was still coming to Leeds on the very day the media were saying he had signed for Bradford, I will state it as fact. I have been through this previously and proven myself previously on this one. He was not offered a more lucrative deal from Bradford, but he was from Wakefield.'" I wasn't around these parts then so i can't be expected to remember such post Am i correct in saying that he signed for the same money originally offered? www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... .912323.jp