I really don't understand why people feel the need to give Cross so much grief, and particularly mock his career achievements. At the end of the day Leeds approached him and knew exactly what sort of player they were getting. A tough, safe hands, unspectacular but run forward prop, with an aggressive streak. Yes, that streak often leads to mindless brain fart penalties, but shock horror - he's been doing that long before Leeds came sniffing. Incidentally, and this may be just my opinion, I would much rather my prop give an aggressive penalty away, in the vain attempt to be intimidating/tough, than a blatant and pointless ball steal/interference/laying on etc...

I'm not trying to defend the Cross signing (I am disappointmented, as I thought he'd go ok), but just don't see why people would slag him off or question his achievements... I would guess he's certainly done more in his rugby career than anyone on here - albeit with limited technical ability.

I suspect it maybe be because it wasn't particularly a position of need heading into the off-season.

Leeds had Peacock to come back part way through the season, plus Leuluai, Bailey, Burgess, Kirke, Amor and Ambler all capable of playing in the front row. If Cross was going to come in, he had to be better than the majority of those names to make it a worthwhile signing. Fact is, he hasn't been and finds himself out of the first team squad which is a waste of a quota space and (I'm guessing here) a slice of salary cap.

Can't argue with that, although I think the signing of a hard running prop was a good idea, bit agree, whoever was signed needed to be as good/better than what we already had. I just think its a bit below the belt and uncalled for to give him so much grief.

He is what he is, and Leeds knew that before signing him. Bagging him the way some people do is pathetic, and in truth, he could easily come into the side and do a decent job. We've got him, we know what he is, let him just get on with it. At least he is available for selection, and not stealing a wage on the treatment table as we have come to expect from some 'favourites' and big names, both past and present.

On the money!

And just to add to that, I actually think under a good, disciplined coach and structure, his straight and hard technique would work well. Put him in the Warrington pack for instance and I think he'd be a bit of a fans favourite.

Put him at Warrington and he'd be behind Morley, Carvell, Wood and Harrison in the pecking order.

Same with any other current top 5 side IMO.

He'd probably go well at somewhere like Cas or Wakefield where they just expect their props to be battering rams and tackle all day.

Agree with most of that, although I think he'd sneak into a couple of the top 5 teams.

But a battering ram is exactly the way to describe him - just dont see why he gets mocked for being exactly that. That's what Leeds paid for - whether that decision was right or not is another question, I just don't think people should get on the blokes back.

I actually think Weller Hauraki has been a good player for us so far this season: he's made some good breaks, he has speed, he makes some runs, his defence is pretty average and he's even scored a few tries. He's a far better signing than Cross, let's put it that way!

Ok then.

I would disagree both are poor but for me cross is slightly better, hauraki's defence is shocking not average!

Hauraki's attack is far better, Hauraki makes more breaks and does a lot of work attacking wise. I wouldn't rate him highly defensive wise, but I rate him higher than Cross. Cross just gives away needless, stupid penalties and hasn't made any impact at all!

Hauraki was signed in the Ali mode and therefore he should be offering more attacking than the prop running down the middle. Agree cross has given stupid penalties but is fairly solid in defence. Hauraki is a revolving door in defence and equally drops the ball a fair bit.

I don't really know why I am arguing don't rate either of them!!

Hauraki's head is pretty much a perfect square. That makes him better!

but cross has a perfectly flat face like he has been hit with a shovel

They both do it well in the ugly stakes!

No SL side should be signing overseas players to make up the numbers in a squad. Ambler may come back a better player next year for the experience he's picking up now, but he'd be a better squad player right now than Cross.

Hauraki may have seriously disappointed, but I suspect he was seen as a gamble worth taking based on his performances last year (albeit a cheaper option as well than the alternative of signing an attacking back row from the NRL).

Sadly what we're left with is two overseas players who are amongst the least effective in their positions in SL.

Dead right, you want your over seas signings to be the jewels in the crown, the strike, the magic! The grunt lacking in uk players! our quota players can't get in the team. Sadley it's not because Kirke is on fire, Bailey is ripping it up or Jjb has a new lease of life. though those players and the likes of Pitts and Clarkson have improved we have hardly been in great form and they still can't command a start! Shizzer recruitment. The buck stops with GH. Gambles on Donald n kylie have paid off. Delaney defo has something to offer. Cross and Hauraki are fails so far. I think cross has done ok. But what we have plenty who can do ok, ambler, Amor and singleton can do ok! I've seen kids who can read an attack and defend better than Weller bless him.

Luckily so far is, what, 14 games?

No need to get excited.

Im not

We're at a point now where fair assessments have/can be made.

To write off either after 2/3 games may be a little premature. But they have both had a fair crack, played plenty of games, and their form that they offer finds them way away from an ideal 17. Even a current match day 17 which sees a few injuries pending.

Which means the senisible decision now should be to tie these both off at the end of the season. I wouldn't be surprised if something happens sooner.

Dont know what length of contract cross and hauraki are on but I can see us being stuck with them, not sure who would want them.

Hauraki is 26 and was in demand from other clubs than Leeds after an excellent season at Crusaders. Personally, I haven't written him off yet, but if the club do then they'll be able to offload him pretty easily to any non top-5 club.

Cross we're unlikely to be able to unload within Super League.

I'd have him at York.

The Bulls didn't pull the trigger after a year with Joe Vagana or Big Les. We didn't with Scott Donald.

We have options in the pack. We didn't at the start of the year. Because a player may not make the 17 any given week is no reason to bin them. I don't judge Hauraki or Cross any differently from Clarkson or Burgess. They are either at the top of the pecking order at any given time, or they're not. I like that their quota status doesn't come into it.

Why is nobody suggesting we bin Pitts, who regularly finds himself out of the 17, or Smith earlier in the season when he didn't make the 17.

I'd have thought after the injuries we stockpiled in the pack early season and the injuries we're carrying in the backs now Leeds fans would appreciate the value of a squad of players.

But no, as usual, Leeds fans are reactionary. A player has a bad game, he's terrible, he has a good game, he's a world beater, he doesn't make the 17, get shut of him. If GH gets shut of Hauraki and Cross and we get more injuries the same fans who bemoaned GH signing them will bemoan the fact that the squad is too small. I expect it from most idiots on here but you surprise me.

I'm not prepared to write off either Cross or Hauraki......yet.

Both had some game time earlier in the season when we as a team were struggling badly and yet both seem to be being made scapegoats.

Fair enough, I agree that your overseas signings should (injury permitting) be amongst the first players down on your teamsheet as otherwise what are they doing here but to be fair to them, both are settling into a new team with new structures etc and with regards to Cross he's having to settle into a new life with a new club in a new Country.

I think if both got a chance in the match day 17 now for an extended period that people's opinions of one/both players may change.

Hauraki had looked good on attack playing in a team that was looking poor earlier on in the season. Granted his defence had and still has weaknesses but i'm sure he and the coaching staff are working on that? Look at McShane, last year when he got a chance many opponents were running over and through him but he seems to have improved his defence.

I'm not sure whether Cross has had some disciplinary issues within the club that have not been let out into he public domain or whether it's simply a case of he was a signing made by our previous coach and Mac doesn't like/rate him? However when we have had rare sightings of him I think he was looking decent as the team were getting better. I seem to recall that in away games at Bradford and Cas he looked more than useful with the promise of more to come but after that Cas game he seems to have gone off the radar just as he seemed to be 'warming to the challenge'

As fans it seems a lot of us are constantly looking to slag off the players and Senior, Bailey, Kirke, Burrow and Smith have all had their fair share of flack in the last 18 months but it seems that our overseas signings come in for even more stick and unless they are ripping up Super League from their 2nd game onwards they are written off by many.

Eastwood was slagged off last year and despite his 'off field' issues no one can deny that apart from maybe Peacock before his season ending injury he was the most dominant member of our pack (2nd half of the season) and produced the goods on the pitch more times than not (accepting his brain fart in the CC semi

)

Buderus had and still has his fair share of knockers but IMO is one of our better performers on a consistent basis.

Kylie and Donald were both written off as next to useless in their first half season here and yet look how they both turned out with I'm sure most agreeing/accepting they have turned out more than OK.

IF Cross is happy in the UK and the club are happy to keep him I think he will settle down and become a valuable member of our pack over the next 2 years.

Maybe part of the reason for getting him in now was an expectation that both Burgess and Kylie are going at the end of this season with maybe JP at the end of next and possible departures of Kirke and/or Bailey who are both out of contract (?)

With regards to Hauraki, IF he sorts his defence out I'm sure he too will be an asset long term.

Players do and can improve.

Look at the difference in Burgess this year compared to previous seasons and how Kirke has produced better performances these last 4/5 matches. Hell even Bailey has looked half decent the few times he's been spotted on the field this season



Patience can be a wonderful thing.