Lost 4 Home games in a row now

Not one player has improved under Smith, in fact they have all gone backwards.

Its not individuals though, its the team as a whole. There are some pretty fundamental things which are just poor, meaning we have no foundation. The lack of structure, which looked wonderful in 2022 as it freed players from the Agar shackles of dullness, is just ebbing confidence. This is the same as last year, as there is nothing to fall back on when the going gets tough. Everyone ends up looking for someone else for miracle plays, and the wrong players start making decisions, generally bad ones.

Add this to a pack lacking in punch both yardage and defence - which is where a lot of our problems start - and a stratospheric dumb error count, and it really is a hot steaming mess.

I cannot see how Smith shouldn't be judged really quite harshly now. We're about a third of the way through the season and look worse than at the start. We've also got a worse record after 9 games than last season, which included a win at Sts. The problem isn't new players learning each other's play, its the basic stuff that any team, even average ones, need to be able to do.

Time for Smith to go now for me. He hasn’t got it in him to turn this around and nor should be given a chance to. Win/loss record must be about the same as Agar with significantly more investment in that period.

Big question is who to replace him with. Hope uncle Tony hasn’t packed up yet? Wane? Tell Brian Mac all is forgiven? Probably just let Chev have a go…

smith has to go but I've no faith in GH to get the right man in.
notice smiths cheerleader is absent. even he couldnt spin this garbage. but he'd try

That is a good summary of where we are under Smith.
I believe that our squad is much better than they are showing under Smith. Individualy we have some quality players, but he failed last season, and so far this season to get them playing together and the excuses have run out for me. He should have gone last season.

Got to go

Anyone who cant see how fundamentaly poor we are just dosnt understand Rugby League, its shambolic, chaotic Rugby, and the exact opposite of proven successful rugby league

He's got his team now, and its soft, mistake ridden and mentally fragile.

The lack of a winning culture, mentality and toughness is obvious throughout the club

Some of his signings and re-signings have been woeful

But GH will be loathe to admit he got it wrong, we'l most likely beat hull and London to paper over the cracks, and we'l be stuck with him

As I said on another thread beating those two teams next proves nothing. Can he get the team to win in France and at Saints week after? If so then he starts to make amends but Smith is on thin thin ice

Handley is significantly better but that is more.down to himself.

Wait until the end of the season then get rid. Also his assistant coaches. Big problem the mess he will leave behind, also is Hethrington capable of appointing his successor. After all Smith was his choice. Looking at his post match interview he may decide enough is enough. Finally some of the players need to take some responsibility for this shambles. Some of them need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Every year we hear soundbites about togetherness, rhinos DNA, this year it was 'the struggle', the other year it was burning sentimantal sht in a bin and turning it into a Rhinos head. All these gimmicks and we're still going backwards.

This is what I mean about culture, we’re exchanging hard work and high standards for short cuts and gimmicks at the top level and that is impacting every area of performance and leadership.

Quite a few players are better since Smith arrived. Off the top of my head:

Ash Handley, Jarrod O'Connor, Cameron Smith, and Tom Holroyd - of the current squad. Someone like Sam Walters also started looking the part despite not liking it at prop.

I suggested Wane a few weeks ago

You must be delighted with yesterday's result. You are probably not even a Leeds supporter.

There are probably good reasons Wane has not been brought in for the head coach role for another SL club. I would struggle to see him fitting in at Headingley.

If we do decide the change the coach, a successful appointment for me would be someone who is capable of getting the most out of the current squad, which has been expensively assembled, much of which is under contract for next season and beyond, and features a growing number of young players. IMO the squad is good enough to be higher on the ladder, aside from needing a bit more firepower in the forwards.

If we go for a new coach who wants a clear-out it will be back to square one again, and I don't think the club can afford that unless it is determined that the likes of Croft, Ackers, Miller and co are not what we need.

Croft, Ackers plus Miller are exactly what we need, unfortunately it’s difficult for them playing behind a lightweight and underperforming set of forwards. Not to mention a sub standard coach.

lock this thread now.
backwoodsman has hit the nail firmly on the head

What we need is A Graham Murray esq. couch who can get the very best out of a group if players and is also not afraid/strong enough to ruffle few under performing players, and promote the up and coming players.
We don’t need a rebuild.

Smith's sacking is inevitable now it's just a matter of how much of the season GH wants to waste. If he wants to write off another season, he'll give it a couple more weeks and then do it. Then he'll write to fans about how difficult it is to hire a coach mid-season, and we're going to need patience. We are in a never ending cycle of the man who keeps getting us into this mess being the one who is trying to get us out of it. The repetition of this is becoming a maddening process. We're supposed to have patience in a man that is constantly failing at his job when it comes to the squad and manager.

Leave it too late and the new coach won't have chance to evaluate the players properly. I'm baffled what some members of the first 21 actually offer. It might be that Smith isn't bringing the best out of them - equally they may just be substandard and need ditching.

It’s clear there’s a big issue players arguing on the field. Probably no respect for RS. GH needs to swallow his pride and sack Smith immediately. But can GH admit he got it wrong?

Not sure if GH ever admits he got it wrong, if he does its very rare.
Whether Smith is a poor coach or too inexperienced GH choose him.
In any organisation or business its the man at the top who is responsible and if its floundering then they tend to be replaced.
If Smith goes then GH should go as well.GH has been great for the club in the past but he is now like a boxer who cannot realise or does not want to admit he's had too many fights.
He is totally out of touch and a younger man needs to replace him with fresh ideas.

Agee with your comments SteveM but we do not live in an ideal world so the best we can hope for is Mr Hetherington admits his latest mistake (even if privately) and does the right thing and replaces RS. No point waiting any longer. If decisive action is taken and a good positive replacement is found quickly, even Mr Wane. Then we can salvage something from this season. If he doesn’t take action then Mr Hetherington must carry the can when it comes to a big decline in season ticket renewals for 2025

The least-worst option is probably to keep Smith on to the end of the year regardless. If we go for another coach mid season we might see the usual dead cat bounce of a new man, give him a long deal and then discover he's actually useless (see Agar). The only value I could see in replacing Smith mid season is in sending a message to players that what they are delivering isn't good enough. I would only bring in a coach mid season on the basis that unless we win the GF under them, they wouldn't be here next season. I doubt you'd have many takers.

In terms of replacement, just going to Australia isn't enough. Furner was from Australia and was awful, but anyone who had looked at his record at the Raiders would have steered well clear. But GH knew him, so in he came. Smith had a reasonable track record, but how much did the fact he was Tony's nephew have in the decision to hire him? The professional thing to do would be to pay someone who really knows their stuff and is very close to the reserve game in Aus to get us a shortlist of young, hungry coaches in Aus, and pick from them. I'd also think seriously about paying someone like Gus Gould to do an independent review of the playing and junior development side in the off season, as its clearly a complete mess.

Regardless, our next coach is not going to have the room to manoeuvre that Smith had this off season. I would expect them to look at the pack in particular and try to get rid of some midgets and bring in bigger forwards, and take some obvious decisions like not renewing Fusitu'a. Martin might also have to be sacrificed to get the cap and quota space to bring in what we need. But we will be stuck with the majority of the squad we have for a couple of years.

There's about as much chance of Hetherington retiring as there is Putin calling it a day.

As for the coach, he's probably got time yet. But if the home losses keep mounting, patience at the club may run out. If the players want him to stay we ought to see a response in the coming games.