We haven't signed any centres from the championship have we? Is Broadbent better than Newman, McDonald or Martin as centre. Definitely not. Academy (champions last year) players tend to be 18 or younger. Smith, quite rightly, doesn't think throwing 18 year old lads in with fully grown men is a wise way forward. Better to develop them in the reserves or on loan. Which of our championship signings do you have a problem with? McDonnell came from the Championship and forced his way into the first team in a very short time; McDonald looks our biggest attacking threat; Ruan had a great pre season and is starting for Bradford; Roberts scored a belter away at Leigh and also got one last week; Hooley had a shocker in a gale force wind at the most inhospitable ground in the league, but a bit premature to judge him on that. Which players would you have signed for this year?

Some interesting stats below in particular Cam Smith, James Bentley and Blake Austin.

Tackles
Rhinos loose forward Cameron Smith has now emerged as the competition's overall leaders after producing a whooping 64 tackles against Hull KR for Leeds Rhinos. The fact Jarrod O'Connor is second across the whole round too demonstrates just how many errors with the ball Leeds made last week.

Round leaders: Cameron Smith (64), Jarrod O'Connor (5icon_cool.gif, Matty Lees & Benjamin Garcia (47)
Overall leaders: Cameron Smith (305), Nathan Peats (285), Jai Whitbread (280)

Missed tackles
Oliver Russell and Edwin Ipape once again find themselves among the leading culprits for missed tackles this week. The overall 'crown' remains with Hull KR's Mikey Lewis.

Round leaders: Oliver Russell & Edwin Ipape (icon_cool.gif, Sam Stone & James Bentley (7)
Overall leaders: Mikey Lewis (33), Jacob Miller and Micky McIlorum (29)

Tackle busts
Not only did he score two tries, but Konrad Hurrell also had plenty of fun with his carries, recording a week-high of eight tackle busts. Tim Lafai, despite missing the last two of the last three games, remains the competition's overall leader.

Round leaders: Konrad Hurrell (icon_cool.gif, Tommy Makinson, Jai Field & Sauaso Sue (7)
Overall leaders: Tim Lafai (3icon_cool.gif, Bevan French (37), Jai Field & Arthur Mourgue (34)

Carries
It was a busy night for Rhinos forward smith as he was also the competition's leading ball carrier last week. The loose forward is getting through some work for his side. Jacob Miller and George Williams were typically among the leading carriers too.

Round leaders: Cameron Smith (24), Jacob Miller (23), George Williams (22)
Overall leaders: George Williams (167), John Asiata (154), Jacob Miller (14icon_cool.gif

Metres
Not one, but two new members to the 200+ club, with Wigan's Abbas Miski recording the highest figure of the season with 278 during the Warriors' win over Leigh Leopards. Paul Vaughan is now the outright leader. He posted 191 this week, which amazingly wasn't good enough to be in the top three of the week.

Round leaders: Abbas Miski (27icon_cool.gif, Matt Dufty (227), Bevan French (199)
Overall leaders: Paul Vaughan (1202), Josh Charnley (1041), George Williams (1011)

Errors
It was a tough debut for Luke Hooley. Jordan Abdull's aerial bombardment caused him and Leeds all sorts of issues and he came up with five errors during the match. Jai Field is now the leader overall.

Round leaders : Luke Hooley (5), Matt Dufty & Mahe Fonua (4)
Overall leaders: Jai Field (14), Rhyse Martin (13), Mason Lino (12)

Offloads
For a second week running, Toby King comes out on top with five offloads. It means he's now the joint leader overall, tying with Huddersfield's Esan Marsters.

Round leaders: Toby King (5), Konrad Hurrell, Paul Vaughan & Thomas Mikaele (4)
Overall leaders: Esan Marsters & Toby King (16), Kai O'Donnell & Julian Bousquet (13)

Penalties
Owen Trout may have bagged a double but he was also guilty of making the referee blow his whistle three times during Huddersfield's win over Salford Red Devils, with Mark Sneyd doing the same. He's now the co-leader for penalties conceded alongside Blake Austin.

Round leaders: Owen Trout & Marc Sneyd (3), Four others (2)
Overall leaders: Blake Austin & Marc Sneyd (icon_cool.gif, six others (6)

The mistake when looking at the 'championship' players is looking at them as though they should all be in the first 17, when most were never intended to be playing regularly. Having to sign these guys is an indictment of Leeds' junior development - not from the last year or so, but going back 5 or more years. We've somehow not managed to produce many good players, had a small first team squad that was underperforming and some way off the best on paper, and yet were right at the cap. Smith came in halfway through last season with the remit of sorting this utter mess out. Frankly in terms of squad he's achieved more in less than one year than I thought anyone could, but a lot more needs to be done.

That doesn't change the fact we're now not playing well consistently and he needs to fix it. We've shown we can compete, now we need to play to our potential.

Imagine how we could use Hurrell now if we kept him!

he wasnt worth keeping

7 missed tackles for Bentley, pretty disgraceful for a senior player. Smith really needs to start dropping these high end players who are not doing enough. Take a leaf out off his uncles book, or even go full Graham Murray.

Smith is certainly leading the way with the amount of tackles and carries.
And all this clamouring for Mikey Lewis yet he`s the worse in the league for missed tackles.
Rhyse Martin doesn`t go unnoticed either.

Yeh I'm not sure on Lewis tbh.
Decent prospect, but nothing more yet for me.
Abdul is different league.

Smith and O'Connor will always top our tackle count.
Always the first ones into the tackle down the middle.

An it confirms that Austin is a penalty machine.
Often gives stupid ones in key positions as well.

Stats are a useful indicative tool however they may not paint a true picture. Maybe Austin receives more penalties because in recent weeks he seems to be in the thick of the action. Credit to him he always seems committed. Abdul is a superbly talented kicker, his running game seems limited.
Watched the first half of wire and hull, Williams produced a master class of rugby, everything was on view, strong running plus tactical kicking. He absolutely controlled the game. As for tackling the union boys have come up with the phrase dominant tackle, which I think is a useful stat.

Wonder what the reason is for the down turn in performance with some players Bentley usually dose a ton of tackling.

For mine some of these stats only tell part of the story.
I reckon Austin has given away at least 4 of his 8 penalties not kicking it 10 yards from kick offs or drop outs.

Smith and O’Connor do a lot of work but it’s largely passive defence. Bentley is doing a different job at times. He’s trying to get off the line fast and nail people to change the momentum. It did not really work on Friday in the wet but he gets a missed tackle against him when the ball carrier my have to change direction etc and I can’t recall them making a decent break because he missed one.

As for Smith and 24 carries, I reckon at least 6 of them would be a negative for me, where he takes a pace or 2 and does not pass wide fast enough, then comes inside aimlessly and gets tackled, still classed as a carry. I don’t want a ball playing loose forward getting tackled 24 times a game.

Austin has given a few away for high tackles, a few times he has shot out the line aggressively and got the tackle wrong, fair play to him as a half back trying to make a difference in defence.

Think that's a bit unfair on O'Connor, he is often the on leading the line in defence.

Spot on re Austin. I'd also add he throws in the odd very good tackle where he spots play opening up and nips it in the bud.

The golden era was based on the progression of academy players through into the first team squad not filling the squad with average Championship players. Most of those academy players played in the first team by the time they were 20. Broadbent is a utility back who could play wing and centre and as such is better player than either Hooley or Ruan. Walker is on a different planet to Hooley - why he can't stay fit needs to better understood. McDonald is an average centre who has significant defensive issues. Both Ruan and Roberts starting at Bradford says it all - what was the score at Keighley? Even the coach said picking Ruan&Tindall was a mistake. The best signing for me is McDonnell who came from Wigan - no suprise there a SL youngster progressing

Walker is not a great player even when fit. He's not quick and can't pass. He runs some good lines every now and then. He's also, sadly, an utter crock which is a disaster in a salary cap world. Broadbent took his bat home when Smith arrived after not playing well and getting dropped in Smith's first game in charge. I'd rather he stayed but he clearly cracked the whatsits and left. He's not exactly the greatest centre ever and he's 22, not 19.

Your argument about Championship players doesn't make any sense because in terms of experience McDonnell was a championship player, and had played just 6 SL games in 3 years for Wigan. Sangare also played most of his rugby there.

The whole point of these signings - just to reiterate AGAIN - is that we have sweet FA quality players in their early 20s that the club has produced. Last season we were one injury away from picking 17 year-olds in the backs. Not because they were ready but because we had nobody else. Smith wants his backup players to be full grown men, not kids. He made that point very early in his stay last year.

The club is now focused again on bringing through kids. Fantastic. About time. But look at the quality of former Leeds juniors playing elsewhere who are under 25. Talk about mainly championship players...

The games changed from when the goldens came through. Throwing kids out to play every week at 18 is (rightly in my opinion) seen as the wrong way to go. And even back then the likes of McGuire and Burrow didn’t play every game. In reality there was always plenty of ‘squad’ players. Whether you’re talking Dunneman or Millard, or later on with the likes of Kirke, Worrall, Ambler. Our best squads have always had depth, some of which is from the academy but some were from other clubs or the championship.

For me this squad is the closest we’ve come in a while to getting the balance right. Some of the overseas quota just needs addressing now.

Quite correct, as I mentioned previously the stats are a useful tool but don’t paint the whole picture. For me one of the benefits is how much yardage the forwards are making. If you have a dominant pack you usually win your match. The stats will give you a rough idea as per the pack’s performances or lack of.

I disagree with just about all of that, and not surprisingly, just about everything else you post. No matter. It's all about opinions, as they say.

My goal was not to bag O’Connor or Smith, I like them both but just to point out that these simplistic statistics are not all RL is about.

On another note Ryan Hall is stronger than any of our props, can still finish and is safe under high ball. Looks 3-4 more years left to me …….would we for next season?

That would be good we can finish up with a 39 year old winger

Likewise, on the stats, I presume it doesn't count as an error when Olphert's runs away from the high balls so that he doesn't have to drop them.

To disagree agreeably is a good thing - it is good that there is a divergence of opinions - it would be a very dull board if everyone had the same view.

The club is the best run, highest revenue generating club in SL - outside of the golden generation it has struggled to deliver on the field - it was 32 before 2004 that it last won the Championship - why do you think a club with such resources cannot deliver in the most important area i.e. on the field.

Management.

And that, not because he spilled a couple in a gale, is why he should be dropped.