There has been nothing this season to show that. Even last season, we had to rely on Cas losing players for the big one in order to make it a success. How many times seriously over last three years has a full Leeds team beat a full team oppossition? We are always relying on the opppossition having players missing.

We beat Wire and Saints earlier in the year away from home. Look, with a full strength team we can beat anyone in this league in one off big games.now that probably says more about the strength of the league currently than it does us im not saying we have anything like the quality to pick from we did say, 8-10 years ago but it is good enough in this era.

What would you be like if we hadn't won 8 Grand finals? Since 2015 we have been in transition, the "Golden generation" have been coming to the end of their careers and leaving the club. Yet through that process we still managed to win a Grand Final last year. You really are a glass [size=150empty[/size kind of a fella aren't you. As a matter of interest what should Leeds have achieved over the last 15 years to qualify for a Gotcha seal of approval?

And neither side on each occassion had a full team out. Even against Wire earlier in the season we had to rely on Goodwin going off injured, aswell as them starting with a fair few missing.

You getting your head out of the sand would be a start. If youare not adding to the conversation, then why interject? The discussion was on the feeling that without the injuries we would beat the oppossition we have to play. But that optimism was not taking into account whether the oppossition had no injuries. So repeating again, how many times over that "transistion" you call it, which to be frank is a bag of poop, have a full Leeds team beaten a full oppossition? It just doesn't happen, and we all rely on the oppossition having players missing, from both sides, so you can't just simply believe we will beat someone with a full side. Leeds as much as any other side rely on the oppossition not to be at full strength.

And to follow some consistentcy here, I am not a bandwagon supporter like many we unfortunately have. Grand Finals are not the be all and end all for me. We have had many years since 1978 when I started going without such nights, but we still had some damn good rugby at times to enjoy. And surprisingly we managed to beat full strength oppossition.

Never said they did, but close enough. Do you think any of the current top 6 would fancy their chances of a top 4 fininsh with the calibre of player we have missing for the next 6 weeks and beyond?

Do you not think Hull have a far bigger problem than we do? yet they are not only competitive but winning. Cas missing first choice halfs, first choice centre, and first choice fullback, but still pick up points. I would suggest rather than your last sentence, that more likely any of the top six would prefer to play us every week.

But none of that changes the actual point made, which was simply that to be optimic we would win the games with players back, we would also need the oppossition to have players missing. Nothing over the last three years has shown anything different to that. Of course we will be a lot stronger, but you still can only beat what is put in front of us, and if that is full strength then it becomes less likely.

Did we have a full side out?

I'm not sure I'm following your point, are you saying that if say Leeds with a full side played wigan or saints with a full side we would definitely lose? I'm not sure how you can possibly make that assumption seeing as though we haven't had a full side out this season so you have no basis.

Anyway my prediction for this season is we finish 5th, we have got a bad injury list this season but I don't see things as doom and gloom as a few on here.

I am however very doubtful about the game against Leigh, I think that has banana skin written all over it.

No, you have missed the point. I have made no assumption on definitely losing, I have simply based the view that over the last three years how many times have we beaten a full strength oppossition? With that in mind, how can anyone assume with our players back we would beat the teams above us when consisdering we have shown over that period that we need the oppossition to have players missing.

To answer your first question. I don't think we have had our full side out once this year. Although I am willing to hazard a guess that none of the top six teams have either.

We should have beaten hull, wigan and wire whilst playing pretty poorly in all 3 games and were indeed in a position to do so with 10 minutes to go in all 3.that was with no front row..infact i mainly mean Garbutt who is 50 percent of our go forward and there are no two ways about it we have badly missed for the whole season thus far.

Not replacing Galloway and not bringing in another half is looking like negligence now i will give you that.

Wigan - they have been doing that for years - 2016 their injury list was every bit as bad as Leeds - remind me where did they finish and where did we did we finish?

You could ask that of any team? how often are teams full strength these days. Twist it round when was the last time Hull, Saints or Wigan beat Leeds when we had a full team out?

What we have done in the last 3 years is gone from bottom of the table to Champions in a year, we are in a dip of form at the moment and have a bad injury list but I don't think we will end as bad as is being made out

Where did they finish in 2017? and where did we finish?

Swap our list of crocks Kelly Griff Sneyd Carlos Bowden Fash Abdul Tuli and raise you a Kirk Yeamo.

Seriously with the Aussie jaunt, dumb Easter fixture calamity, and top it off with the Magic bash, no A team/academy structures, and lets throw in the odd plastic pitch, and next year a possible swarie to the Rockies, our administration is unique, in its ineptitude.

I agree with all that, but I say again, none of those teams were full strength when they played us. So yet again the point is, you can only say we will win the games with full strength if the oppossition are not full strength.

Remind me where they finished 2017

But we weren't at full strength either so your point is somewhat moot.

And we lost all three, so not as moot as the other argument.

We lost 3 games against top four rivals by a drop goal, it's not as if we we got hammered by weakened teams (apart from Saturday that is)

We lost all three whilst both teams were missing players, and it wasn't by a drop goal against Warrington. So why should we assume we would win them if both teams had all their players back? It's not like it was one match, it was all three. Games that we have consistently lost in the last three years with the same scenario.

This.

We have only lost by narrow margins really, other than Saturday when Cas were crap, but we were a lot crapper.

The standard of Super League at the moment is very very poor.

Considering St Helens who are quite frankly are a one man team - are top, says it all really.

Anyway back to Saturday, it really does look like we will be in the sh@t squad wise, from the Leeds website looks like the following could be missing...

Peteru
JJB
Ablett
Singleton
Parcell
Ward
Delaney
Walker
Watkins
Mullally
Sutcliffe
Garbutt

And possibly Myler.

It was a drop goal against Cas.

Your assumption seems to be the only team that can improve is Leeds - who is to say that the other sides had an off day and still won?

Consistently lost?

take 2017

against Hull

W 24-52
W 10-7
W 38-26
W 18-16
L 43-24 (CC)


Against Wigan

W 26-18
W 32-16
L 34-0 (when we basically played the Academy team)

Against Saints

L 6-4
W 24-22
W 16-14

Against Warrington

L 25-14
W 40-0


The only thing we have consistently done in the recent past is get hammered by Castleford except when it really mattered of course.