OK, I can concede that recruitment didn't go to plan.

However, that said, I maintained all along this squad was good enough to retain the title. Many doubted that. They were wrong and I was right.

Harry Jepson said this was Leeds best squad ever. Do you disagree with Mr Jepson?

There is one vital and very obvious flaw in that statment

its called

LEEDS RHINOS ... THREEPEAT CHAMPIONS

Operating below the Salary Cap for 3 years...yet still managing to recruit overseas quality.... and bringing young emerging home trained talent through as well.

PS, its' not just Mr Jepson. The CEO now agrees with me that this is the "best Leeds team ever".

So maybe we weren't desperate for that prop and right centre after all.

Not just the best Leeds team, but the best squad. IIRC there were those who levelled criticism at Blueys "Man management" approach to coaching. It now appears that this particular group of players who a couple of years ago were reported to be fractious and fragmented under Smiths leadership are now willing to put themselves into bat for each other even when the chips are down. It appears that the lack of "big name" signings has actually given those who remain an incentive to step up to the plate and demonstrate what they can achieve given a steady run in the team.

I have a confession of my own to make though. When Diskin went to burrow through from D/H on the 5th I did start to say "Oh FFS", this did then change to "F*** me, he's only gone and done it"

Finally, what did Jesus once say, 'it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'

I think I know how he felt.



Of which I don't believe I was one but please carry on. My goal for Leeds this season (as it is every season) was to achieve the Cup and Championship double as I've never seen it done and what's more it's never been done by any Leeds side in their history (but several others have done it including St Helens and Bradford in the SL Era.) I really thought there was an opportunity this season but the off season recruitment probably put pay to that.



Who am I to disagree with someone who has watched Leeds (albeit as a Hunslet man) from the 1920's. I don't think his comments were specifically related to this season's squad though but to a period covering the recent seasons. He also states that this season's squad could and implies should have been stronger and that next season's will be stronger where again I'm in agreement.

That is where you are wrong - Leeds won the championship not because they were a better side than the previous but because the others have gone so far backwards - this side isn't better than 2007/08 even you must agree that.

It penalises Leeds because they are not able to keep their best home grown players Lee Smith is an example Scruton is another - next season Leeds will have 7 yes 7 overseas players - is that really beneficial to the game? Eventually clubs will see no benefit in bringing through their own players if they are able to recruit full fledged Aussies for a fraction of the development cost - if all that happens is that when they become top quality they have to sell them to stay under the cap.

Listening to Sinfield it suggests that without the goodwill of the players and their agreement to take reduced salaries this team would have been broken up some time ago - that is why the cap penalises the top sides.

Listening to Sinfield all those who believed Buderus was on mega money are well wide of the mark - hey Danny

- there is no way the top players would accept a lower salary so he could earn mega bucks!!!

I was waiting for someone to trot out that argument, and I knew it would be you.

Saints 2009 squad is deeper than either of the previous two. Look at the young players they have blooded this year such as Wheeler, Lomax etc who were able to come in and enable them to keep winning even when they had injury issues to key players.

And yet with a supposedly weaker squad than 2007 and 2008, with their two key overseas signings either injured or unable to get a visa, Leeds were able to do something they hadn't been able to for the last two years and finish ahead of them over the weekly rounds.

Lee Smith and Nick Scruton left because two other clubs saw their value as being much higher than Leeds were prepared to offer. That would happen with or without the salary cap. Perhaps Scruton would have done well to heed the words of his former captain after the game on Saturday, as would Messrs Calderwood and Walker?

I am begining to feel its impossible to educate you D.

Its not so long ago you were losing money telling me Leeds wouldnt win a single trophy in a season never mind 3 GF pn the trot.

As to the above ridiculous statement you are aware the goal isnt for Leeds to be better then THEIR predecessors it is to be better than THEIR opponents.



You were arguing that the Salary Cap impinges on this vital goal when clearly the indisputable FACT is that you are WRONG AGAIN as Leeds unique record demonstrates..





Answer me this one as well do you think the likes of Scruton Walker Claderwood etc and no Smith have made a huge mistake based soley on chasing the money at the WRONG time in their careers. ????

I disagree re Saints - their problem was the number of ageing players who have taken up too much salary cap and as a result the depth of the squad is weaker IMO - all these youngsters they have blooded only Eastmond played more than 5/6 games and he was the only different player in their side in 2009 compared to 2008. How many of these blooded youngsters will get a regular place next year?

I think most on here would suggest the standard of rugby this year has on the whole been poor across SL and Leeds are no exception. That is to take nothing away from what they achieved which is outstanding but say they were best of a very competitive league simply doesn't ring true IMO.

You're confusing quality with competitive.

It would be hard to argue that SL was anything but more competitive this year. Leeds lost almost a quarter of their games in the regular season, Saints nearly a third. There were only 12 points separating 2nd from 8th.

You may have an argument about quality, although I think the World Cup may have had more of a hangover than many would give it credit for, with a larger than usual number of players from SL being deprived of a full off-season programme as a result.

That depends what you think a competitive league is Dave. Some seem to think it should involve superior teams enabled to play free flowing rugby against inferior opponents.
What we're seeing now are closer teams playing position and possession. You might not see so many passes across the backs to wingers in space, but do you really want to? Or would you rather see a competitive but scappy game?

I think I mentioned it first on this thread.

Leeds League campaign finished 2009 where it finished 2008 exactly. Same wins, same losses, same points.

This year it finished four points clear of St Helens, Last year one point behind.

St Helens also had to play an extra game in 2008 as opposed to 2009.

Perhaps they had an unluckier year with injuries forcing the premature introduction of a number of youngsters but they also had a skinnier squad at 1st grade level. Who replaced Sculthorpe, Talau, Fozzard and Bennett from the 2008 squad?

David, you're making a mistake that smokey makes on the Virtual terrace.

Leeds could pay certain individual players mega bucks if they wanted. The salary cap doesn't prevent them throwing silly money at lee Smith. Its' Leeds own internal wage structure that prevents them. Its' that wage structure that has engendered the kind of team spirit Sinfield was talking about and that has led to our success.

Other clubs don't do this. Wigan, for example, will be willing to pay one or two players a huge salary and let the rest of their squad feed of the scraps. Do you really think that will help them?

Even if there were no salary cap I expect Mr Hetherington would still adopt his pay structure and he'd be damned right to do so.

Youre doing what you did with the Leeds squad this year. That worked out well for you didn't it?

Gareth I don't disagree with anything you have said - but do you really want to be in a position where you have to release players you have nutured/developed since they were 16 because of salary cap issues - this situation will get worse if the cap is not increased - clubs will simply stop investing in young talent if this is what happens

If we want to be competitive at international level we need to ensure all the talent stays within the game surely - losing players to the other code is a sad indictment of the SC - I see Ashton scoring again for Northampton at the W/E - a serious talent lost to the game.

If the clubs can sustain an increase in the cap (in this climate I am not sure they can) then, yes, I would be for an increase.

I do want to see Leeds retain the likes of Calderwood, Walker, Scruton and Smith but an increased cap isn't necessarily going to ensure that. We will not be able to match RU salaries. Do you think Leeds should've matched Wasps offer to Lee Smith? If they did, do you not think McGuire, Sinfield, Burrow and others would've been knocking on GH's door?

What is needed is something more pro-active that rewards clubs for producing home-grown talent. The £50k dispensation is a start but doesn't go nearly close enough.

Its' frustrating when we lose a quality young player but you have to remain philosophical. Had Scruton stayed would Burgess have played in the GF? It took a while, a few stop gaps and an overseas player but Walker's replacement came from within, Smith.

Just keep the conveyor belt turning.

The team that won the final, the most successful team in the period of SL where we have had a consistent hard (as opposed to the soft cap previously in place that allowed breaches with financial or points penalties) salary cap have done so on the back of the league's best youth policy. The losing finalist probably has the next best youth policy.
Yet you think the cap encourages teams to abandon youth development?

The salary cap forces teams to invest in academies, because it's far cheaper to bring players through than buy them in from a position where you compete on salary in the open market. The cap also encourages the less wealthy teams to invest, because it prevents the richer teams poaching their players.

Do you think Wigan could have afforded to keep him if they had been able to use another academy player instead of one of the four imports and one external signing in their backs?

St Helens went backwards in 2009 compared to 2008 as did Leeds to a lesser extent. Both suffered the same problem of under investment.

Leeds failed to retain their WCC and make an impact in the Challenge Cup.

St Helens failed to defend their LLS and Challenge Cup title.

Did Leeds gain the LLS or did St Helens lose it? As with every season it's a combination of the two.

Or, if the glass is half full, both clubs did a magnificent job to sustain their lengthy period of success, St Helens achieving their 6th consecutive top 2 finish and 4th consecutive GF and Leeds achieving their 3rd consecutive top2 finish and 3rd consecutive, unprecedented GF.

12 other clubs in the league would desperately love to go as backwards as Leeds and St Helens.

I will keep trying D.



The primary objective is to win all trophies available...simple as.



Leeds have kept the side together BECAUSE of their internal salary / pay structure nothing to do with the SC...simple as.



The standard of rugby is a purely subjective matter and a personal opinion. IMHO this season has been as interesting and exciting as any other if not better, with teams beating any other on a given day... Simple as.



Couldnt give a flying fu.ck what the Aussies think...Simple as.



Scruton and Calderwood both made a huge mistake career wise and Smith is now realising the same...Simple as.



Ellis made a career move not based on pure financial gain and this is to be respected...Simple as.

If you're basing that on League table finishes St Helens finished 5th in 2004. As prize money is handed out after the play off series some might argue they didn't finish top two in 2005 either.

Leeds 3rd GF is not unprecedented. Bradford and St Helens have both done the same and better but yes I understand your point there.

Going backwards is not my idea of the direction any club should be taking and Leeds thankfully have ensured (if recruitment is anything to go by) it's a trend they're determined to reverse in 2010.

I judge the direction the club is heading in on the achievements the players make on the field and not the signings the chief exec makes before a ball is kicked or passed.

Still, if you're not happy with what the squad did this year but are happy with next already year because we signed some new players..............

We went backwards in 2009 ????? Feck me your getting has bad as David.