The games I have seen on sky this year, Sinfields attitude has at times been Cheeky bordering on insolent. I think Cas away was one such instance

I could be wrong but I'm sure Tony Smith used to fine his players if he thought it was a needless penalty.I wonder if the same rule applies now?

Very true. He used to be a model professional in his polite dealings with the referee whereas now he reminds me of Iestyn Harris's whining ongoing battles with Russell Smith.

The team's relative discipline has been worsening since 2006 so I suspect most individuals would have got worse over this time - mirroring or led by the captain.

One wonders when the coach will address this slide or, indeed, if he is capable of so doing.

If it was a contractual clause then yes, if not who knows. Neither coach appear to go in for public negative comments regarding individual performances from players.

If I were Worrall I'd hardly construe Mclennan's comments this week as positive or a glowing endorsement.

While you may well be the chap at the front in the fancy nightgown I don't see myself as one of the curly haired followers.

He implied he didn't see Worrall as a game breaker with Leeds needing one to come from behind.

Is that a "positive" from Worrall's point of view?

You raise a valid point about how far backwards Sinfield has gone under Mclennan's stewardship in terms of discipline.

Its' not just there though is it. Remember, our captain was shorlisted for Man of Steel at least twice under Smith's guidance.

Since McLenann's arrival he's looked a shadow of that player, albiet still a very important one in terms of our team.

Why would you not want to further discussion the regression Mclennan is instilling in our better players? It's an important issue.

It's probably a sincere appraisal although I've no idea if Worrall would agree or see it that way.

McClennan still wasn't commenting on an individual player's performance as he didn't once mention Worrall's ability or lack of to warm the bench.

I hope the Chief exec sits down privately with the coach and gives an honest assessment of his performance last weekend.

And I hope the coach does likewise with the CEO's performance in the off season when replacing Toopi, Scruton, Tansey and Ellis with Buderus.

By accident you've prompted an interesting point.

I've just looked up 8 other players to see if their discipline has got better or worse, or, more to the point, I was looking to see how much worse.

Danny McGuire & Rob Burrow are far less likely to give away penalties this year than last year.

Ali & JJB are also improved under Mclennan (despite JJB being singled out unfairly as some sort of penalty machine this year) with JJB markedly better this year.

Lee Smith is worse this year, but last year stayed at the same level as under Tony Smith - mirroring the team.

Keith Senior and Jamie Peacock were terrible last year - far, far worse than 2007 but both have turned that round completely this year.

For the team to have changed so radically this year (from 9th worst to 2nd worst) there must be others, beyond Smith & Sinfield who have got far worse in 2009 if players like Peacock, Senior, JJB, Burrow & McGuire are actually conceding far less. Also suggests that something is being done to curb indiscipline but that some players are responding well, but others are not.

what about Ablett? he seems to have given away his fair share this year

This may be late as the discussion has moved on but:



Using the stats on the SL website:

Year - Penalties conceded (No of Games) - Avg per SL Reg Rd -

2003 - 170 (28 ) - 6.07
2004 - 142 (28 ) - 5.07
2005 - 125 (28 ) - 4.46
2006 - 162 (28 ) - 5.79
2007 - 198 (27) - 7.33
2008 - 215 (27) - 7.96
2009 - 180 (22) - 8.18

The rot set in between Smith's second and third season.

While the numbers are still increasing under McClennan (that was happening anyway before he took over) the rate of increase has been declining under his tutelage.

Falls into the Smith category - worse this year.

That's a very lazy job.

We need comparisons for all players for Smith's first two years in charge and Mclennans'

Then and only then can you doubt the obvious conclusion that this team is far more ill disciplined than its' predecessors.

In fact, the only reliable statistic is where we lie in the fair play table, rather than comparing ourselves from previous seasons and I am afraid THAT statistic doesn't lie.

Under Mclennan we are the 2nd most ill disciplined team in the league. Levels Smith's teams did not stoop to.

surely it shouldnt be about the people who give away the penalties but rather the type of penalties that as team we are giving away?

Burgess slightly worse, Diskin markedly better this year.

I refer you to my noble colleagues statistics provided above.

Up to his final season Smith kept the penalties lower than his predecessor not something Mclennan has ever been able to manage.

2007 was very wide of Smith's previous three seasons whereas both Mclennans seasons have been far too high and higher than Smith's worse season.

Dress it up all you like but its' clear discipline is far worse under Mclennan than it was under Smith.

If he stays and he continues to fail with the issue then one wonders what the figures will look like in Mclennan'sennan's fourth year in charge.

A valid point Loz

Yes, lower than his predecessor's final season (not necessarily Powell's best or even average return though)



The team was already becoming less disciplined under Smith, McClennan has managed to slow that trend although he hasn't managed to halt the increases as yet.



If the current trend continues in year three and four under McClennan the rate should reduce to around 7.58 compared to Smith's final return of 7.33. He may need a fifth season to return a figure below Smith's final season at Leeds.

Fingers crossed eh?