The top clubs were better, the poorer clubs were poorer.

There has, in my opinion, been somewhat of a levelling down caused by the salary cap.

I think if you put teams 1,2,3,4 in 2004 up against teams 1,2,3,4 in 2014 the 2004 teams would win fairly comfortably. I think if you put teams 12,11,10,9 in 2014 up against their 2004 counterparts, the 2014 clubs would win massively. The lower reaches of the league were appalling back then, even the mid table sides were a country mile back from the top clubs.

As for GH's statement, is he massively wrong? Going in 2004 nobody thought we would be as dominant as we were, there were huge questions and we were still very young and filling some places with some pretty average players, 2005-2006 we didnt win anything,

Next year i think Cuthbertson will add something, he is a decent player, plus we have a very deep squad. Perhaps some individuals arent as good as they were but it has been a long time since we could look at so much experience and depth in my view.

I think this squad might surprise a few people next year. Sinfield getting a proper pre season under his belt could be like a new player.

Edit: on top of Cuthbertson coming in, there is Baldwinson coming back (it was apparently a disaster of epic proportion to lose him, but barely mentionable to bring him back) another year for Singleton, Ward, Mincella, Sutcliffe, R Ward, Walters Mulhern etc, we might even get something out of Andy Yates.

Whoops, mea culpa - yes it's a Superb & it lives up to it's name.
I went all the way to Wembley sitting in the back & it was one of the most comfortable car journeys I've ever made as a passenger.

It's time GH got some fresh "PR" ideas this is far from being the "best squad ever" and to ignore changes for another year is just putting more pressure on the end of 2015 when wholesale changes will be required!
Although Club Legends nay in some cases Immortals they on a rapid downward spiral and its obvious the likes of Kirke & Bailey are not good enough to take up more of the responsability!
Cuthbertson potentially is a good signing but then again where is he gonna play and how long for?
The H/B pairing has shown this year it isn't consistent enough to last a full season and we still have issues at 9 both in quality and how they are utilised.
The Coach hails his "machines" but they failed their M.O.T's miserably during the latter stages of the regular Season indeed for at least the last 2 months minimum.
My genuine response to most of GH's E-mail is "Get Fckuked yer having laugh mate" the loyalty card has been played rightly over the years but letting them all get old and fizzle out together is criminal .
Also there needs to be a different approach to selection etc so hopefully a new assistant Coach will add new ideas and convince the untouchable Mc.D that he shouldn't have so many "undroppables".

TBF there is still a good chance of us picking up silverware next year but IMHO it will be the last time this will be the case under current playing staff and coaching team.Who knows what has been said behind the scenes? Maybe Mac has voiced his concerns to GH about the need to move players on but has been rebuked.ATEOTD, Mac has won 2 SL titles a WCC and a CC in 4 years at the helm (as long as any top coach gets these days),he will be fine when his time comes to an end(probably end of next year)for us so 1 more year with this settled squad still in the hunt for silverware probably suits him fine.

The bigger picture looks quite grim at the minute though.What quality coach is going to want to take on the role of shooting bambi on a mass scale whilst not being fully backed by the CEO?

Francis Cummins?

He seems to like a challenge.

Remodelling Leeds under any circumstances would be a cakewalk compared to Bradford.

“And I firmly believe we will have our best-ever squad ready to meet this challenge and play together for the last time."

Now if you read that another way, he perhaps isn't saying "we will have our best ever squad" meaning the 2015 squad will be the single best year squad we've ever had.

He perhaps is saying "we will have our best ever squad" which is what Sinfield, Peacock and co. have been for Leeds for 10 years now as will go down as in history as....."ready for the challenge of going one last time"......the one last time part points to him talking about the squad in more than just a single season way.

By the way, some of you lot need to cheer up big time, I'm surprised some of the people on here don't slit their wrists upon hearing any mention of the words "rugby" "league" "leeds" or "rhinos"

................

As for the difference in quality thing. Several months ago I posted the team line-ups for the all the opposition who visited Headingley in 2004 and some are really bad. Obvious better teams to what they have now were Bradford and Hull. Saints team was better but the 2014 team isn't exactly too bad. Wigan are better in 2014, as clearly are the Hudds, Wire, Cas and Salford teams that came to us in 2014. London we're by default better but it wasn't exactly a great line-up and Wakey and Widnes you could argue about level but I'd say the 2014 line-ups would edge it.

Looking back at them something caught my eye about a point raised the other week about playing guys out of position when they first break into the team. Whilst it didn't happen against us, James Roby played 2 games on the wing for Saints in 2004 including a playoff defeat vs Wigan.

So he's basically saying next season is the last hurrah for the golden generation. Winsomething next season it'll be your last chance with leeds.

That has to be the most ridiculous comment I have heard GH come out with.
His he trying to tell me the teams of 07 & 08 with top class players like Senior, Donald, Webb, Lauitiiti plus Maguire, Burrow, Sinfield, JJB, Peacock, Kylie, Bails at the peak of their powers would be not match for the class of 2015. Lost a lot of respect for him now. A man who has just seen the season ticket sales and is panicking.

It's a load o bo!!!ocks anyway. I haven't heard Sinny, McGuire, JJB, Burrow, or Bailey talking about retiring at the end of next season. If they all joined Peacock and Kylie what would we be putting out on the field? Outside backs would be okay, but beyond that? Last chance to see the "Legends"? Do they not realise that by flogging once great players well beyond their retirement time there is a very real danger all we will remember of the likes of Danny Mcguire will be a portly sloth who can't keep up with play. JJB has gone from the heart, spirit and soul of a great team to a gaff prone penalty machine in the minds of some fans and Bailey's actually becoming the pantomime baffoon other clubs fans have been bagging for a decade.

Do we actually ahve anything exciting waiting to be unleashed when these guys do finally make way? Or is our next first team currently on loan and struggling to make it into Bradford and London's reserves?

This is the flaw in marketing it as "roll up, roll up, come see these specimens before they disappear forever" - you actually end up (as a new ticket holder) potentially seeing a poorer version and thus actually less likely to "be remembering them in 50 years". You'll more think, "well, what was all the fuss about"? For instance, having had a season ticket for just 2 years, I will remember and appreciate JP more for 2013 than 2014. But I suspect some of you longer-termers might remember the 2010 or 2011 with more fondness.

In reality, if the 2015 versions of these guys are all you see, will you actually rave on about them in the future? I love Sinners; this started probably around '05 / '06 when I had been at uni in Leeds a couple of years, watched on TV and he never seemed to miss his kicks. I remember saying to friends then and now that if I had my last tenner and had to choose between Sinfield making a conversion or Big Al (Shearer) who I saw weekly, first hand for 6 years scoring a penalty, my impression was that Sinners was the safer bet to put my money on.

Watching him live in 2013 I realised he does miss and wasn't a machine, but still idolise and love him because of what I saw before from afar. 2014 overall was noticeably average compared to 2013. If 2015 and then 2016 continue that way, I will have to think back to make myself remember why I idolised him, as the reality will be that for 3 consecutive years I watched my once superman become average and unspectacular.

Now, if all I saw of someone like him was 2015 or 2016 I wouldn't have that 'memory bank' to fall back on and miss what the fuss was about. Better to rue something good ending a season too soon, than 2 years of seeing it slowly rot away in front of your eyes.

Seriously though how many single cell organisms does GH think he has on the fan base for them to buy this diatribe about 2015?

I guess we'll find out with season ticket sales, right guys?

He he

Two Words. Ellery Hanley.

Was good for Leeds, but was great for Wigan and they knew when to get rid.

I'm not joking, anyone who falls for this laughable marketing guff deserves to be fleeced.

It's the last time you can see them purely because JP (37 when it all kicks off) is retiring. That's all it amounts to.

This team badly needs strengthening particularly with a longer season and a more intense in that league campaign looming. And Adam Cuthbertson is no work-horse front-rower either.

5th might be regarded as an optimistic view considering the 6th placed finish in a weaker competition this time. I expect Catalan, Hull and Salford (all below us) to be MUCH stronger in 2015.

The clean-sweep he talks of was there for the taking this year....until someone took their eye off the ball and gifted 4 points to the two relegated teams.

Stability is bollox - look at Arsenal, same coach for years seldom win anything, Fergie was successful because he was prepared to make very difficult decisions about star players e.g. Beckham - neither GH or McDermott are prepared to do that. Fergie would not have retained Sinfield, McGuire, JJB, Bailey etc.

I would be prepared to place a sizeable bet that Peacock is still trotting around in 2016.

Look at the NRL how many coaches stay anywhere longer than 3/4 years? There is only so many times the same group of players can respond to the same message - either change the coach or the players.

The core of the group is in decline and you have an owner and a coach who don't have the balls to make the changes that are required to maintain the highest levels of quality.

The fact the owner is spouting this rubbish must question his credibility or his belief in the gullibility of the fans.

Problem is there will still be plenty of gullbility....and, as with many things in life (typified by religion), people will believe what they [i[uwant[/u[/i to believe

I certainly wouldn't want too many people to see the likes of JP in the same way I saw Atkinson and co when I started watching in 1981.

I agree that the side does seem to need freshening up a bit. In recent years Leeds have missed a trick in not providing better backup to the quality players we have, particularly in the pack. Being brutal, and with the benefit of hindsight, we could have seen Kirke, Clarkson and Bailey already replaced. We would then not be in a situation where we may have to replace 'just' JP and Leuluai at the end of next year, but those two plus at least one of Kirke and Bailey.

I do have a couple of caveats to the need for a complete overhaul though.

Firstly, the side did win the CC, and quite easily - beating Sts and Wire convincingly on the way. IMO they are still not that far off being able to compete all year. The squad may need fewer new faces than we might think to have a real stab at 2015.

Secondly, we simply won't be able to replace star players like for like. We may be able to get a very good prop to come in when JP retires, but it still won't be JP circa 2007. Neither would Sinfield or McGuire's replacements be younger versions of them - most would be poorer versions of their younger selves.

We are also in a salary cap universe. Even if they were available, we wouldn't be able to sign the best replacements from other clubs for Burrow, Sinfield, McGuire, JP etc, especially when so many of the squad have remained at Leeds for less than they could have got elsewhere. Bought in players would have no such in-built loyalty, and would rightly compare offers from different clubs in monetary terms as much as anything else. You could even argue that letting a few players go on a bit too long is the price the club has been willing to pay for its success over the last decade.

Finally, a real question remains over how the squad (whoever is in it) is used next year. At some stage the coach has to actually give fringe players a real go - not 5 minutes at the fag end of a match but starting, e.g. with JP on the bench. Will Cuthbertson be used like Achurch or push Leuluai for a starting spot for example? Nobody should be unsure about how good a player with 50+ appearances is (or could be), and faster decisions can be made about whether to retain them or not.

I do understand what GH is saying. Its interesting to make the comparisons he does though - the Revie-era Utd team fell to bits and Man Utd have also lost the aura they had under Ferguson. Hopefully he'll manage it better than Leeds Utd did.

Funny thing is, William used a term like "single cell organisms" to aim at the apparent sheep like Leeds fans who'll keep supporting the term.......yet you, Nantwich and Jamie have then, like sheep, copied his usage of those three words in the belief that you are distancing yourself from being sheeplike.

Irony is a f**ker ain't it.

Not much of a comparison between the Rhinos and Arsenal...during Wenger's continued reign they managed to build a brand new stadium, stayed competitive in Europe and as the financial burden of the new stadium build eases have started winning trophies again. They have no problem selling season tickets at around £3K a pop too! Leeds on the other hand are simply treading water as we enter our next 30 year interregnum.

Soccer is a different sport but the comparison is valid - stability in coaching tropheyless cabinet for years - not really competing in the league, nobody seriously thinks they can win the PL. Arsenal have been treading water for ten years they get to the last 16 of the champions league and get knocked out, the finish 4th in the PL year after after if that is not treading water I don't know what is.

The worrying thing for GH was the decline in attendances towards the back end of the season they were well down on like for like fixtures from the previous season. He will do well to reverse that trend especially with the uncertainty around the new structure.

How important IS it for you to score points off another and feel superior in what most secure adults would consider matters of little if any importance?

So does anyone on here actually believe that their minds or opinions about next season have been changed thanks to Uncle Gary's email/press release?

Haha the person who often tells us he feels pity for those who attend games talking about feelings of superiority, good one



Also the same guy who felt he had to start a complete new thread 'Rhinos relegation form' to highlight his views even though we already had several threads running based on the same subject he talked about.

You might also want to read the last sentence of the opening post of that thread he started before criticising others for an apparent desire for superiority

Not one bit.
In fact I think it will have the opposite effect on many supporters.
I wouldn`t be surprised to see attendances fall and us get a good few beatings next year.
I do hope I am proved wrong and like we have done before with our backs to the wall we have come out fighting and end up playing some great rugby to win back the GF Trophy.
It will take something special and I do not think we have the resources to do it.
But who knows?
Logic tells you that the forwards were outplayed quite alot last year.
Our half backs apart from the start of the season and the CC run were too slow.
Watkins and Briscoe were far from the best backs in SL as we keep saying.
Hall had some cracking games as did Moon but also had some stinkers.
For me only Hardaker warrented the praise and possibly Ablett.
The rest who will be another year older looked tired and incapable of bossing the game like we used to do.
So willing to be proved wrong but I think GH has got his PR badly wrong this time.

I'm happy to be buying my season ticket on the zero per cent deal for next year to ensure that I continue to enjoy my seat in the Carnegie Stand.
I don't expect to see us winning all the trophies on offer & I fully expect to be disappointed on some occasions & to leave the ground in a good mood on others.
As has been said earlier what do people expect Hetherington to say?
Don't come to watch the Rhinos, we've got an aging squad that's well past its sell-by date?
That's really going to put bums on seats.
Being a fan means supporting your team through thick & thin it does not mean that you cannot think for yourself.