Would be interesting if we did get clubcall and the top 4 stay as it is.
Would we pick Wigan as the lowest placed team?
Would rather we avoid Saints until OT.
Dark horses at 12/1 .

Too many.

Covered all your bases there haven't you?



Still, you and Gotcha are ad idem.

We (or Wire) can't pick Wigan. They will get whoever doesn't get picked at the DW......providing Wigan Athletic let them play there.

Classic Gotcha

"The most important thing to remember when you find yourself walking through hell ...... is to keep walking"

If it were 15 minutes then he would have been active in a tackle or a carry every 37 seconds. In your opinion this qualifies as a disgrace does it?

who mentioned tackles. 3 carries is a disgrace

Once again keyboard is tapped and opinion formed before any form of reasoning is engaged.

Oh good, another thread hijacked by team of Kirke. Could we not just keep it all on one thread

How many minutes did he play?

he won't answer. he won't engage reason

You will recall that it was I who had asked you this question because I suspect you do not know the answer. I do not know for sure how many minutes Kirke played either (I would guess around 20) but that is why I have not jumped in with judgemental comments like you and your follower Tad chose to do.

his follower? i wouldn,t follow him down the street

Oh, I see. If you didn't know how many minutes how did you arrive at his average tackles per minute stat on the other thread?

I guess you just made it up then.

The number of minutes came from Tad who suggested 15. My point was made to challenge his unfair comment.
ie: that you have to include the tackles plus carries to judge a players active involvement. Like I said if it were 15 minutes then Kirke would have been physically active in play every 37.5 seconds which made Tad's comments harsh to say the least. He wasn't on for much longer than this IMO.

Regardless of how many minutes he was on 15-20 minutes, that would give Leeds at least 7 sets, given he was fresh on the park he should have been shouldering some of the workload, how many hit ups do you think Peacock or Kylie would have done in 7 sets?

Bailey starts at 13, Singleton on bench, Achurch and Clarkson out.

so the lazy BFG is included again they must be mighty impressive photos he has of the coach.....

The only way he could have made 7 hit ups in the time he was on would have been for him to have made fewer tackles. It is obvious that Kirkes role over many seasons is to put a high number of tackles in around the ruck in a short space of time. Others are tasked with making the hit ups which you may have noticed were going quite well with out any extra help. Are you really suggesting KIrke could have been more active than every 30 or 40 seconds. Even the great JP doesn't achieve that stat.

A Giant Prop isnt in the team to make yards or take hit ups?

Apparently not. And, apparently if he does it stops him making half a dozen tackles.

Except that in reality he was on for much longer than this in the game at Wigan.

Classic Southstander to use Opta to make calculations using a figure plucked almost from fresh air that turns out to be very, very wide of the mark.

In this instance I would query Kirke's tackle count statistics in that he was either 1st man in or close enough to be considered a primary defender on 16 tackles (1 more had Peacock not been penalised for a high shot) and added weight/assisted in 7 others. Opta reported 19 - which raises the point that without clear guidance from them as to what constitutes a tackle it's impossible to gain an accurate understanding of player involvement in this area.

Marker Tackles Opta credited Kirke with 3 which I saw but two of those were derived from genuine effort at the PTB to nullify the next play while the other was a case of Wigan merely ending up back at the PTB area having first shifted the ball wide right and back again - so I would have discounted that effort for that particular stat.

Missed tackles - clearly there was one on the stroke of half-time but Opta also picked up a second elsewhere. Only Opta know which incident this was. One time Kirke tackled the man after he passed - I'd neither count that as a tackle or a missed tackle - and when Thornley made a midfield break he went between the in front of the line Ablett and Kirke who was drawn in towards the ball carrier opening up a huge hole between them - could this be it ..... who knows bar Opta.

It has been mentioned that Leeds had perhaps seven sets of possession while Kirke was on the field whereas in reality it was precisely double this figure - +1 if you're being pedantic but as Hall gained a penalty on the kick return I've excluded it. It is undeniable that Kirke made just the three hit-ups - one in each of the 24th, 27th and 31st minutes - each time one out runs from first receiver with Sinfield playing the dummy half role and I'm within a metre of agreeing Opta's total at twenty-three metres gained so no quibbles there. IMO Kirke won two of the three collisions and all the resulting play the balls were either quick or at least acceptable.

What is not shown is the number of times Kirke made dummy runs where he looked capable of taking the ball in as an option if the ball carrier had chosen to use him. Before the break I counted five such efforts from Kirke.

__________

I understand people's beef with Kirke and here is an actual clear example from the Wigan game you're trying to discuss without making much reference to the actual events. After the break and while Kirke was still on the field Leeds had seven sets of possession and Kirke neither took a carry or offered himself as a genuine option runner during that entire thirteen minute period - zero, zilch, nada. Delaney was effectively Leeds' second prop during this period.

Peacock returned for Leuluai in the middle of this Kirke offensive rest period and within twelve seconds of crossing the touchline he was hitting the ball in, did so again on the next set (albeit on the 5th from Sinfield playing dummy half so had to pass on for I think McGuire to get the clearing kick away) and did so again on the next set. Singleton then replaces Kirke and takes three hit-ups in the following four sets.

I would personally find it pretty difficult to defend a prop playing a 34 minute 13 second spell (with a convenient rest period built in for half-time) making such a limited contribution offensively given the efforts of those fellow primary ball carriers around him who it appears were unimpeded from making their own contribution to defensive duties.

A perfect vignette of my beef. It happens almost every week (though not this past Saturday).