So the obvious question is: Can a one trick pony at the same time be a special talent, no doubt?

He laid on a brilliant try last night with 2 dummies and a cut out pass.

Fair call your right having rewound n fast forwarded mysef ( the joys of sky+! ), although I'm still not sure what Sam's meant to do or doing wrong, as I said earlier in the cup game early on in the year both teams was getting players trapped just the same way, only difference is that the ball comes out and the tackler gets penalised anyway? I don't see how this is breaking the rules.

His Red Hall rap sheet this last couple of seasons is very poor, and they all talk about Bailey!!!

The way Tomkins does it it should be an offence. He rolls on the ground to ensure they can't get off him drawing a penalty from the old manned officials, it's blatent and has been all season long where he is concerned. Not his fault, it's working. It's no different to the player holding onto the defenders shirt while under a tackler claiming he is being held down. That's been around for years but occassionally the ball carrier get's penalised for it. Does Tomkins? If he has I haven't seen it.

To be fair to Eddie, he did say that he felt Tomkins had old manned Alibert twice and that he had been doing all season!

Maybe Tomkins has spurned his advances and fawning!

Penalties for holding down the tackler usually come when the tackler lands on top of the ball carrier who then reaches around them and grabs the shirt to prevent them clearing the ruck.

Tomkins - so far - is being much more subtle and much harder to spot from ten yards away with a tangle of bodies on the floor. He'll continue to get the benefit of the doubt on most occasions IMO, no matter how much everyone else knows what he's up to.

You're mimicking Saints fans blinkered defence of Sean Long's rep selections based on the opinion he was the best halfback in SL at the time. Yet his performances in a GB shirt were more often than not lamentably poor, just as McGuire's performances have been.

SL form should count towards rep selection but if said player then displays a consistency in not being able to hack it at that level... and in the case of Sean Long and Danny McGuire that is most certainly the case... then you select someone else who may be able to hack it and possibly do a better job.

If Tomkins and Eastmond are fit, they should be England's halfbacks in the Four Nations. It's early days but they've shown enough promise thus far, performed better than the likes of Long and McGuire in a GB/England shirt and they've earned their opportunity.

You mean like win Man of the Series against the Kiwis?

That worked well for Rob Burrow's international career - sacrificed for the media clamour to fast track firstly Myler and then Eastmond into the side.

Sam Tomkins was appalling in the 4 nations final, at least as bad as Mcguire was in the first game.

Tony Smith is a tactically astute and highly regarded coach who is very much his own man, is he not? Are you suggesting he isn't?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"Sam Tomkins was appalling in the 4 nations final, at least as bad as Mcguire was in the first game.'" Stats suggest otherwise. livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2709.html livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2768.html

Quote ="SmokeyTA"Sam Tomkins was appalling in the 4 nations final, at least as bad as Mcguire was in the first game.'" Stats suggest otherwise. livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2709.html livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2768.html

Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"Stats suggest otherwise. livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2709.html livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2768.html'" thankfully the game isnt played on Stats, I was at the game, i watched it and Imo, Tomkins was at the very least as bad as Mcguire in the first game

Quote ="Keith Swiftcorn"Stats suggest otherwise. livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2709.html livescores.smh.com.au/matches/nrl/match2768.html'" thankfully the game isnt played on Stats, I was at the game, i watched it and Imo, Tomkins was at the very least as bad as Mcguire in the first game

Nothing against McGuire but I honestly don't know how you have possibly reached that conclusion.

Because he offered nothing at all going forward and was just as much a turnstyle in defence.

There is for some reason a feeling that the final was a noble loss by youngsters and the first game was the embarrassment. It really isnt the case, for so long in that final we were devoid of any direction at all. The forwards put up a hell of a fight, the probably beat the Aussie pack for 60minutes of that game, but we wasted so much ball, and Tomkins did nothing all game other than try a chip and chase that was nowhere on the 3rd and throw the same left step which the aussies saw a mile away.

I would go as far as to say the forward performance was dominant, as good as when we beat them in Sydney, Ellis, Burgess Peacock Morley Graham were outstanding, we just did nothing a lot of the time we had it. For periods we had Sinfield playing hooker, halfback and Stand Off.

I just cant see why Tomkins performance was praised, it can be excused because of his age, but it certainly wasnt good.

Eastmond on the other hand looked dangerous the whole time he was on, i liked the way he buzzed around the edges a lot.

You could write a far more stinging critique than that of DM's performance at the DW to be fair.

He wasn't just as much of a turnstyle in defence - he missed less tackles and made fewer errors despite playing the full 80 (unlike DM).

I think we must have been watching different games TBH.

id take the stats on that site with a pinch of salt to be honest, there are some which are clearly wrong

besides, the missed tackle stat is something that clearly is up for debate as to what constitutes whose missed tackle. The defence on Mcguires side in the first game was shot the whole way through, it wasnt solely down to Mcguire, it was down to Briscoe, Smith, and Peacock, frankly it wasnt a surprise the best team in the world ripped through a defensive line containing a complete rookie on the wing, a winger at centre and prop at 2nd row.

And i would also add i dont believe the pack laid the platform in the first game that they did in the 2nd.

Sam Tomkins reminds me a lot of Billy Slater – bags of talent but a dirty little sh[size=100i[/sizet with a face that you wouldn’t get sick of punching.

That's about the only valid comparison with Slater. On Wigan's boards some have compared tomins at fullback to Slater. Sorry but there is a planet-wide gulf in standard between the two at fullback. Slater is one of the most dangerous open-field runners I've ever seen, and a very underestimated defender too.

In the two knock out games V Leeds this season Tomkins has lost possession on the first tackle around his own twenty where he had full control. Perhaps it only happens V Leeds in cup games though?

Not sure how Slater would compare.

Right now if fit i'd have McGuire over Tomkins

McGuire also scored the try of the season with his double chip over the top, forget which side but what a fantastic try.

It take a long time for half backs, particularly stand offs, to learn their trade. That's why Wally Lewis, Lauries Daly, Shaun Edwards, Schofield, Lockyear etc were all far more affective in their mid to late twenties. Consequently, I am not surprised that McGuire has been so good this season and, on the basis of what I have witnessed, far superior to Tomkins.
Having said that, Tomkins is very much younger and I am sure, his time will come.
Comparing Tomkins to Slater at the present moment in time is like comparing an RS4 to a Ferrari. One is truly exceptional and performs like a thing of beauty. The other has lots of things to admire and is a class above most of what surrounds it but, in a straight contest on the track, there really is only one winner.

Sam Tomkins needs to be careful in reference to his arm lock technique he uses often to milk penalties.

Some people won't stand there waiting for the ref to act, they may break his arm in getting him off.

** Weegan mode **
"you reap what you sow, a broken arm is the least he deserves for cheating"
"I hope he broke his neck"
"I hope it's a career ending injury"

No no, they only feel like that if you give away a penalty in the last 5 seconds of a game. Being a cheat doesn't count at any other time in the 80 minutes.