Nail on the head. I agree with your assessment of Kirke and I agree with Leicester Rhinos.

What I cannot abide is softness in a Rugby Player. My views on kirke were preceeded by similar views on gentle Giants like Feather and McDonald.

I can see your point but I'm from a different school of thought. I was actually a fan of both Feather and McDonald in their times at this club, which put me in a very small minority I think.

They didn't hit all their weight, and by professional RL standards we certainly 'soft' for front rowers, but IMO because of their sheer size (Feather especially) were effective front rowers. The fact that the potential was there to be very, very good was a huge frustration, but IMO they were both quite effective.

agreed but fev is a proper proper top bloke!

Where is Feather these days??

I heard he was packing his bags to try and play at some level in Oz.

Can anyone inform me?

He tried, went and is back. Last seen at a gym near Pontefract by a mate of mine last week.

he was playing in France at Villeneuve I think!

He was sat a few rows in front of us in the Carnegie stand at the Warrington game with Evans (cannot remember his first name..but the bloke whose had stints at Bradford & Cas and probably overs..is it Jeff?)

James Evans

Thanks Tad....i got his initial right

I agree that would have been relevant if it was true, it wasn't though.

You forgot to add "i my opinion" because, in my opinion, in the opinion of other posters and in the opion of people trained and paid to jduge these things, it was true.

The fact that Delaney caught the ball ahead of where Sinfield released it (in relation to the pitch markings) isn't really opinion. It's a statement of the facts of the matter.

There is divided opinion on whether the pass was forward or not (in accordance with the laws of the game) and both camps have several posters lined up.

Forward: tvoc, Hopie and El Barbudo

Backwards: G1, back to back to back and rhinoms

Add me to the backwards list. So to speak.

Well, our view of the facts appears to differ. If that isn't us having opinions then I don't know what is.


And the full time, full trained, professional match officials.

where the ball was released and where it was caught are facts, you cant have an opinion that changes that, by mentioning momentum you are implying you agree with what i posted earlier, but that the pass was still a " lovely flat" one, that is the opinion part where you disagree with myself and others



well you are calling a notoriously unreliable witness there (you will note the touchjudge is badly out of position to make a call too)
furthermore the awarding of a try means they didnt see it go forward, not that it didnt happen

I realise it's an echo but I'll post my reply just the same



The point at which the ball was released by Sinfield and the point at which it was caught by Delaney is not, or at least shouldn't be, subject to opinion.

The legality of the pass (within the rules of the game) is subject to opinion but that is not what this discussion is about.




Are they incapable of making an error?

Where the ball was released and caught are facts.

However, we have all expressed different opinions about where the ball was released and where it was caught.

The following was not a statement of fact

It was TVOCs opinion. TVOC claimed it to be a statement of fact. It patently isn't. Unless of course the "facts" are different when viewed by TVOC and me, or Hopie and Puig or El Barbudo and back to back to back?

Well it's difficult to argue otherwise. I've watched it quite a few times now and can't for the life of me work out how you've formed that opinion.

Well, it would appear that it is. In my opinion, and in the opinion of others who have posted on this thread, delaney received the ball in line with or marginally behind from where Sinfield released it.

Now, I understand that you can repeat that delaney was ahead of where Sinfield released the pass when he received it. I accept your right to do that. But that repitition makes it no less a fact and it will remain your opinion.

Not difficult at all. I am not the only one arguing so.

You've formed your opinion. I too have watched it a few times. That is how I formed my opinion. Wow, we're really moving forward here aren't we, unlike Sinfield's pass?

No one other than you has suggested that, some have suggested the pass was not forward under the rules, but we all know that is not the same thing



that IS a fact and always shall be, you dodged the issue of the position on the field after you watched the clip again (or pretended to) and continued to troll the thread, probably because one of your 2 favourites was against you on the issue
issue over

Oh, is that like FACT and END OF. Hard to rebutt that.

Really? Try reading the thread before jumping in with both feet. It wasn't me, on this very thread, who wrote



When I posted" I recall delaney receiving it before the white line and in line with where Sinfield released it" yet a different poster, not me again, wrote "I agree". Again, it's oin this thread so it won't take much effort for you to find it once you take booth feet out of your mouth. Finally, it's not clear either way that whether Puig is saying he agrees Delaney received the ball at a point in lin eor behind Sinfield's release when he says he's in the backwards camp.

Why? because you say so? because you typed "end of issue"? With respect, it is not a fact. It remains a difference of opinion however pompous you want to get about it.

That's a bit pathetic isn't it? You really have lost it here haven't you?


Your credibility appears to be over but the issue remains very much live.

You can make a case for the pass not being classified as forward within the rules of the game, not really a rule I agree with fully but that's another issue. What I don't understand is the thinking that Delaney was level with where Sinfield released it. But that argument could go on forever so we can all agree to disagree there.

When it comes to whether the pass was legal according to the laws of the game, I'd probably say yes, just. Not that Sinfield had a great deal of momentum, passing it in a backwards direction wouldn't have been difficult.

Thank you. Very grown up.

the reason i wrote issue over is bacuase I had nothing else to say
I did miss back to back to back's post so one person did agree with you on that particular issue, I suggest he watch the video and admit his mistake
everything else I stand by