No I appreciate that, and you are clearly very knowledgeable from grass roots up. And you are right, skill levels and excitement isn’t what it was imho. But, part of the enjoyment was to watch a hard but fair game, where the players pretty much policed it themselves. The intrusion by RFL/refs constant penalties /bans is what’s ruining it for me….

I agree Seth, the quality is pretty dire across the board, I don’t thin Cats have been that great at all yet they’re top.

I thought last nights game was really poor quality wise, Saints V Leeds games in the past (maybe not the past couple of years) have been outstanding games full of intensity and skill, last night it was just a case of who was least crap won.

Youre right, the way the game is officiated and then also coached to play to the advantage of the rules is also stifling any quality.

I agree with this, I don’t necessarily watch sport for the quality, I watch for the entertainment, i can go watch a local team and enjoy it, the penalties and bans which has resulted in play acting and milking penalties has really put me off Super league these last few years, I used to watch all the to games, now I’ll only really watch rhinos games now.
I can’t even watch rugby union anymore, as the rules have absolutely ruined that for me.

I just want to watch a game that flows and is entertaining.

Do you see us creating second phase though? I’d like to see Smith playing tighter in and trying to release support players out of contact. We just don’t seem to suck in defenders and offer support play enough.

Winging it around the field laterally isn’t the same thing as keeping the ball alive…

Winging it around laterally is a better description. We need to carry the ball with the purpose to engage defenders and create space, what we do more of is standing still with the ball and hoping to pull the defence on to us then, as you say, wing the ball about.

I think the 2 go hand in hand mostly. I think we'd all agree last night was lacking in both. A neutrals opinion is usually a good indicator of the entertainment with no vested interest I cant imagine anyone was really hooked.

Speaking of which that's how Im feeling about this wigan v leigh game.

What happened to a short pass to a prop at full steam when restarting after a penalty? Now we seem to lob an innacurate 20 yard pass to somebody standing still in midfield. I'm no coaching expert but it seems to kill momentum straight away.

Spot on. At various times our passing line was stood still. Sitting ducks for the saints quick aggressive tackling line speed. Credit to saints that aspect of play was excellent. For me the turning point of the game was the saints try on the stroke of halftime. Poor defending it was a literal walk in.

Yeah I really don't like it, you don't stretch a team with long floated passes, 2 pass plays off the tap can be effective but I'd use that first play to either engage defenders, create momentum or both.

Yep. Also makes prop forwards feel prop forwards. Some of ours look a bit confused.

Yet our coach sees things differently he said we lost the game on the bounce of the ball?

It was only a 4 point loss it’s not the Apocalypse… could have gone the other way fairly easily but just a frustrating and error-ridden performance again. We let them rattle us.

Welsby was the difference IMO. Maybe we should turn Newman into a FB to get more out of him.

Our forwards should have ripped into Saints and set a platform but it didn't happen. With their big men missing you have to wonder why we didn't do better with three props on the bench.

That aside, Saints weren't all that hot apart from a couple of good lines from Welsby. We seem to be missing that extra bit of strike to finish off some of these close games.

Well RS has done it again - we had a new tactic last night . Following on from the list of failed tactics from RS - passive defence , no line speed , messing up the hooking position , playing players in the wrong position, being unable to get our kickers to kick consistently on the 5th tackle etc , he came up with an absolute belter last night - The PASSIVE ATTACK !!
We line up across the field and all stand flat footed ( do not run onto the ball ) and pass the ball across the field and the final player to get the ball gets crunched - what a genius.
Against a Sts team there for the taking , he finds a way for us to lose again.
The only thing left is for RS to get a Non Passive kick up the as he collects his P45 on Monday morning .

Couldn't agree more, frustrates me every time we do it, havnt yet seen anything positive come from doing it, bizarre

It’s to get the ball to the middle of the pitch and to test the defender split either side of the PTB, something most teams do. obviously better if the passing is accurate and someone’s running onto it

It’s crazy that you and probably others think Smith is telling the players to not run with intensity

this isn’t something you need to coach either, it’s basic rugby, I’d put this on the players

I’d also put most of it on the players, they are individually responsible for it. Collectively, and over time, it’s the coach that is responsible as he sets the acceptable standards and has to get players to perform or they are replaced. Smith is far from solely to blame, but he’s not without blame either.

And yet he is still preparing a squad which he mostly inherited and wasn’t performing well enough previously.

He has added MacDonald, McDonnell as first team players and they are good - without having much room at all on the cap.

We have also moved on some dead wood under him which we needed to do.

I want to see him sweep more away this year and really start to stamp his mark on the side / then we can judge better.

And he got those standard against Wire and Hudds, and I’m sure he won’t be happy that they dropped the standards last night.

Who do you replace them with tho? Donaldson? Academy players? Are they ready to step up? We don’t seem to have much strength in depth

The “they’re not ready” line is a bit of a nonsense to me. No player who has debuted has ever been ready, they will make mistakes but will develop faster with first team exposure than without. Perhaps more importantly it’s critical to signal to those who under perform that they don’t have any pressure on them. Can you imagine if a senior player is serially underperforming and is replaced for a game or two by a kid, is there a better way to kick them up the butt and let everyone know that they haven’t been achieving the required levels?

I agree but Saints were there for the taking. Smith and O’Connor were very poor.

Throwing in kids isn’t always the best option tho, especially in the forwards, I know nothing about the academy team and who the next in line would be but chucking in a 17 year old prop just because he’s next in line who’s never played against grown men is irresponsible and can do a lot more harm than good.

I agree players should be dropped if constantly under performing