WHy we already know a team can do it, and have done it so why do we need another?

Except leeds dont only do it as a last resort of for 20 minutes impact. Leeds have done it regularly for 15 years. Very successfully. this is the re-writing of history i pointed out earlier.

Buderus was fairly large too, relatively.

I dont understand the obsession with pretending that what you get from Cunningham defensively is the same as what you get from Roby? Its crazy. There are hugely different types of hookers, Just the same as there are for any position in the game. It makes no sense that people are so desperate to define the hooking role in such narrow terms when players as disparate as Terry Newton, Kevin Sinfield, Rob Burrow, Adam Cuthbertson and Danny Buderus have all played there for the same team. 4 of them internationally.

But all those guys, with the exception of Cuthbertson, who is not a hooker, and Burrow could do the defensive work in the middle and bring energy and lateral movement, some also brought aggression.

As for your rewriting history and Leeds have done it before etc, when we used to have Burrow on the pitch for 80, he would play 7 and defend out wide. Diskin played hooker and defended the middle third, Sinfield played 13 and did b a 13s share of the tackling.

Then later when he spent time at 9, we still kept the real hooker, Diskin, Buderus on to defend in the middle third.

At no point during our successful period was Burrow considered a starting calibre hooker in any way shape or form. I don't see why that should change now.

except for last year when we won the treble. And 2014 when we won the challenge cup.

and as interchange hooker in 2011 when we won the grand final,

and in 2012 when we won the grand final.

We have not been starting a hooker who can't defend in the middle for 15 years. Burrow only started at hooker during the 2012 season and we still went out and brought Lunt in.

I'm not saying that he can't interchange off the bench. Im not even saying that for the odd game it's impossible to cover for him. What I am saying is if we are having to use Burrow every week at hooker we are going g to struggle, to the point where we need to make sure we avoid that situation.

Question, do you honestly think we'd have been in a position to win the treble if Burrow had played 80 at hooker every week?

I will repeat, at no point during our period of success has Burrow been first choice hooker/9/dummy half. That shouldn't and thankfully isn't (with Chicko extending his contract) going to change.

I would. I think he went well in his 'guest spell' the other year in SL with Catalans

Burrow did start at hooker over 20 times in 2013.....but we fell at the semi final stage in the playoffs and we looked shattered and busted.

We did win the 2014 Challenge Cup but I think if we had a proper genuine hooker in 2013 and 2014 STARTING GAMES (Aiton was the one of the bench in that year) we would've won more.

As for the question would we have won the treble in 2015 with Burrow as starting hooker most weeks.....definitely not IMO.

The club haven't covered themselves in glory with regards to solving the hooking situation since Buderus left and it's become a bit farcical at times but credit to them for not just getting Segeyaro over here but you can clearly see the hard work they've put in to welcoming him here and make him enjoy not just playing but living in Leeds and England.

I agree, the right skills set, plenty of experience but still potentially a long term fix.

Thanks Printer. Didnt Aston miss a big chunk of the 2014 season. And which year did we go out and get Lunt?

Burrow is a great player, who still has a lot to offer a team. Just not really as a specialist hooker and certainly not one expected to play 80 minutes every week. Not just because of what he can't do, but because of what what he can't do does to the rest of the team.

We also had Sinfield who was used to defending in the middle as a 13 so he could comfortably make up Burrows tackling

I think we'll be fine getting into the top 8 next year. With Segeyaro in and I think quite a lot of lessons learnt from this year we'll surely be a few wins better off after 23 Rounds in 12 months time.

Top 4 hard to say at the moment. Their hasn't been much transfer activity really. Wonder what coaches will keep their jobs (I think McDermott will). After losing last week to Widnes, just one look on the Wigan board shows a massive disapproval of Wane and if he doesn't win at Old Trafford they might be lining up under a different coach. Frayssinous might've taken Catalans as far as he could after he blew what looked like a certain playoff spot. IF HKR survive the Middle 8's then their appointment of Tim Sheens today is a pretty good move for that club. Hudds still have a squad capable of pushing for a top 4 if they can survive and bounce back from this season, but I'll have see more of them under Rick Stone before knowing what he can do for them there.

Aiton missed about three months of the 2014 season with a mystery "illness", Burrow was out for most of the same period with a collarbone injury and Robbie Ward had several games for us.

Lunt was in 2012.

You must be trolling.

but he is and has been for over a decade.

This isnt like Printer's circular argument that we can't be successful with Burrow at hooker that when we were successful with him at hooker we must have been less successful that we otherwise have been, you are outright denying something that actually happened.

Business end of last year, Rob Burrow as our main hooker, we won the treble,
2014, we won the challenge cup, Rob Burrow was the first choice hooker, starting in the CC final.
2013 Rob Burrow went to the world cup as an interchange hooker
2012 we won the grand final, Rob Burrow first choice hooker, England international interchange hooker

Perhaps you have mis-attributed the argument that big players couldnt tackle back to me?

Or you might be serious about arguing Cunningham was a noted speedster at hooker.

Nope, such a thing is unpossible.

If we ignore all the times doing that has worked, it has never worked.

Do you honestly believe we'd have been in the position to win the treble with Burrow at hooker every game last year? It's a simple question.

2014 we had Aiton. 2015 we had Aiton. 2012 we had Lunt. 2013 we went with Burrow and won naff all.

Burrow can play as an, interchange, he can even start, but he has to work alongside a 'proper' hooker, to suggest otherwise based purely on us limping home last year after being untouchable for a lot of the year (surprise surprise when Aiton was fit) is a bit daft imo.

Going into this season or any other with Burrow as your choice of hooker is a recipe for disaster.

Most important thing for our prospects next year. All the top teams in sl have a top hooker. Houghton, Roby Clarke, wigan this year is probably the eception in that they are up there but 1st choice hooker has been injured most of the season.

I think Mcdermott will get next year to put things back on track. If we are poor next season, GH will bring in a new coach, guaranteed.

People will debate this season to death, Mcdermott, injuries, success was down to peacock and sinfield but when all is said, if we go with what we currently have but make a decent signing at halfback then will be up there again.

yes. We were in the position to win the treble, and in fact did win the treble with Burrow playing the majority of games at hooker.

Ill question the alternative, why do you think that a journeyman hooker like Paul Aiton, that couldnt really make it in the NRL, didnt stand out at Wakefield, looked decidedly average in 2014, hasnbeen pretty poor this year, suddenly became world class and absolutely integral to a side that had been hugely successful without him previously and continued to be successful when he was injured?


We didnt limp home. We beat the best other three sides in SL in succession. We beat the 2nd best side in SL twice (a team that beat us twice WITH Aiton) within 6 weeks.

In what world, other than this imaginary one which we are creating purely for the purpose of doing down a leeds legend, is this
14 Aug 2015 20:00 Super League Leeds Rhinos 25 - 18 Wigan Warriors
21 Aug 2015 20:00 Super League Hull FC 22 - 36 Leeds Rhinos
29 Aug 2015 15:15 Challenge Cup Hull KR 0 - 50 Leeds Rhinos
25 Sep 2015 20:00 Super League Huddersfield Giants 16 - 20 Leeds Rhinos
02 Oct 2015 20:00 Super League Leeds Rhinos 20 - 13 St Helens
10 Oct 2015 18:00 Super League Leeds Rhinos 22 - 20 Wigan Warriors

anything other than absolutely fantastic form? What year, whether we had Buderus, Diskin, Lunt, Millard,Lunt, or Aiton or a frankenhooker of all of them would we look at that as anything other than an absolutely wonderful run? When have we been so good that a win against Wigan is a given, twice? when has a knockout game against St Helens been a game we would limp to a 7 point victory in? How long has it been since we could guarantee a win against Hudds?

Perhaps, rather than seeing Leeds as under-performing because of Burrow and being rescued by players like Lunt and Aiton, maybe, just maybe, it was the players who have done next to nothing outside of a very short time at a leeds side that was hugely successful without them that were being carried and not the 7 time grand final winning, 2 time harry sunderland award winning, 3 time lls winning, 3 time wcc winning, 2 time challenge cup winning England international.

Must have missed when I did that.
Just for the record, I'm not arguing with you. You haven't posted a single thing worthy of arguing with.

For the last time I'm not saying Burrow hasn't been a great servant to Leeds. I am not saying he hasn't played a great part in our success. I am not saying that he does not still bring something to our team.

I am saying that the team would be weaker and probably less successful if we relied on Burrow to play every minute of every game at hooker over the course of a season.

This is clearly something the powers that be at the club agree with as they have always carried at least one specialist hooker. I am going to leave it at that, because I don't really know how much simpler I can make it.

Oh well, as long as the record is straight, it seems very important.

If by 'specialist hooker' you mean someone other than Burrow, you could make it a little simpler by not contradicting yourself. Your last post readily admitted that 'the powers that be' havent always gone with a 'specialist hooker'

Actually, just checked 2013 we had McShane, so every year we have had a specialist hooker to work alongside Burrow, the non specialist who is capable of covering dummy half.

Again if you believe that going with Burrow at hooker all game every game then that's fine, clearly I nor anyone else is going to change your mind.

Thankfully as I said, the coaching staff don't see it that way. Genuinely gonna leave it at that this time.