Yes that is true he did attract the attention of the Leeds club........so did McDermott obviously if he was hired too.

Bowen whilst good over in NRL has come over here as he's about to turn 32. Webb started here only aged 26 with his best still ahead. Bateman isn't yet 21 and doesn't even have 50 SL games under his belt and is still a 'potential' whereas Ellis was 24 his first year at Leeds and had already played for GB a few times. Hansen, a good SL player but I don't think many would've been fussed if we signed him (especially considering he wasn't OOC so it cost Salford a bit to get him). Neither of those comparisons are very good IMO and of course they were no comparisons available to make for Peacock or Ali.



So I overlook injuries to other teams? Note Leeds' injuries last year, yet I know you'll say they were the fault of the coach. Whereas Wire and Saints are down to bad luck......what was that about an agenda?



Well he won the 2012 GF with 10 of the 17 different to the team who won under McLennen. And only 4 of that 17 played in the same positions (Hall, Peacock, Leuluai, JJB). Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow have altered positions, Kirke was used in the 2nd row back then and Bailey started at Loose Forward compared to sub prop Ablett did shift to centre but granted he'd done that in 2008 GF.

Only 3 players are out and out the same from the Smith's final season, Leuluai, Peacock and JJB, others might still be here but are used differently or were only just breaking in like Ablett and Hall. So the team has seen a transition but it's just not solely in changing faces.

The transition back to that of being under achievers again is progressing well under this coach.

Watch how the starting hooker will be back in the halves next week if Sinfield is absent.

Indeed, McDermott has now gone nearly 17 months since we last won silverware. Still got a bit to go until he reaches the 32 month gap Smith endured from WCC '05 to GF '07.

Is this one of usual threads where you move the goalposts every time there is a counter argument?

You made the point about the reason we would not see these players was because of the salary cap and finances. Well both Bateman and Hansen have being signed for similar transfer fees to Ellis, and both on similar wages





Please, come on, your not seriously suggesting the scenarios were the same? You are better than that. One was injuries of his own influence, and continued to play injured. The others were injuries in the one game that mattered, much different to the point you are trying to make.

It's the same with all clubs, Leeds fans with BM, saints with Brown, Wigan with Wane, Warrington with Smith, wakey with Agar... Experience on the internet is counted in posts not hours on the training field, hmm wonder whod be better placed to coach a team though, tough one that.

I think McDonald is underrated. I thought he was outstanding in 2004.

What would the club need to achieve this year to change your mind?

Tony Smith ended a 32 =#FF0000year wait for a Championship at Headingley and had Leeds playing an attractive brand of rugby seldom seen of late, gawd help us if Brian McDermott is allowed to stay long enough to end an even longer drought than that. Had Leeds ever finished 1st on a top division table before they did it under Smith's leadership in 2004?

Before Leeds Smith took the rubbing rag that was Huddersfield RL turned them around and set them on the path to where they are today and since Leeds he's taken Warrington from a 10th placed finish to a top three in his first full season in charge while retaining the Challenge Cup that he and they also won the previous campaign. The 2009 Challenge Cup ended a Warrington drought in that comp that even exceeded the Leeds Championship drought prior to 2004. In 2011 Warrington topped the table for the first time in almost thirty years and they have maintained on average a top two finish in his four full seasons in charge.

Smith has shown at three clubs what effect employing a quality coach can bring - on and off the field. McDermott IMO has yet to prove he's capable of reaching that same standard.

So Smith is responsible for Hudds now too? Haha.
Yes he did win with Leeds and Wire, but he was given the great tools to work with. Had he taken over in 2000/2001, maybe not so much, coupled with Bradford, Wigan and Saints being stronger then. Once Saints got their act together after a very poor 2004 league campaign they topped Leeds three years running in the league. Bradford had their last hurrah and snatched the 2005 GF when Terry Newton had laid it on a plate for us with taking out some Saints players. Wigan ended up fighting relegation during Smith's year. We let other under-achievers like Hull and Hudds deny us in the CC and Wire in the 2006 playoffs. At least McDermott hasn't been knocked out of competitions by pretenders.

Did I say that or did I say this -

Before Leeds Smith took the rubbing rag that was Huddersfield RL turned them around and set them on the path to where they are today

"Set them on the path to where they are today" pretty much sounds like he's getting credit for Hudds.

He turned Huddersfield around and set them on the path.

Look at where they were before he arrived and look at where they were when he left.

Good coaches tend to leave clubs in a better state than that in which they found them - Smith's legacy is secured at two clubs and it's difficult to see how he won't repeat with his current club.

In the interests of balance I am sure you also meant to say that in Smiths first year at Huddersfield they were relegated and the turn around started the next season when McDermott joined Smith as assistant coach and gained promotion. You will say it was a coincidence of course that the turn around and being set on the path to where they are today was nothing to do with his assistant coach.

You I am sure also meant to say that when Smith came to Leeds he brought with him McDermott as his assistant coach. (who you will recall had nothing to do with the turn around at Huddersfield or the promotion gained after McDermott joined as assistant coach) McDermott also of course played no part in the Leeds turn around either and is not rated by the players that were there under Smith or indeed now.

So are you suggesting Brian McDermott makes a better assistant coach than head coach?

For anyone who questions just how dire that Huddersfield outfit were in SL 1998 to 2001 (Huddersfield-Sheffield for one of those years) after the RFL had promoted the McAlpine Stadium to the top flight consider how few of their 109 Regular Round fixtures they took both points from?

Smith arrived with very little (bar the use of a shiny stadium) to work with and had to start to rebuild the club from the basement up and a year outside the top flight was an integral part of that journey - one the RFL had denied the lamentable Huddersfield in successive years of propping up the rest.

He got relegated, got promoted, finished 10th from 12, with over half their points coming from wins against the 2 below them which included the woeful Halifax who only won 1 game all year so hardly much to brag about beating them. That leaves them being better than Wakey for 1 season. Hardly can claim to set them on the path.

Hudds success is more to do with Ken Davy and him bringing in better players (only 3 of the 17 who played in 2006 CC Final played under Smith)

Anyone you speak to at Huddersfield acknowledges that it was Tony Smith who began the turn-around at the club. To deny that is to deny what is pretty much obvious. Plenty of more credentialed coaches were there before him with better squads and failed to achieve anything. He turned the club and its culture completely around.

I have some sympathy for ThePrinter's views on Tony Smith, even if those views are being used in support of a Pro Brian McDermott agenda.

Tony Smith is always going to be regarded as a hero among most Leeds fans for being the coach in charge when the Holy Grail moment occurred in 2004. Any critique of him is always guaranteed to be challenged quite passionately.

However, the club did underachieve massively in 2005 and 2006 and some of his interviews and facial expressions on TV were becoming increasingly bizarre (just like some of his team selections were). Had Leeds not won that 2007 Grand Final, it would have been extremely difficult to speak of a Tony Smith legacy on the back of 3 unsuccessful seasons in a row.

IIRC, when it was announced in 2007 that Tony Smith was leaving at the end of that season, the opinion of the vast majority on this forum was one of relief and that it was high time for change at the top. Only with the sudden benefit of hindsight did those views suddenly change on the 13th October 2007 at approximately 7:40pm.

Coaches should move on after 3 years regardless of achievements

Enough water to fill the pacific ocean passed under the bridge between smith leaving and hudds getting good.

Spot on.

I vividly remember Smith's manic facial contortions after the 2006 CC semi against hudds in particular. Chilling.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-2118033 Quote ="YEP"Only a couple of weeks ago, the Yorkshire Evening Post printed a reader's letter which dismissed Tony Smith as unfit to be considered one of Leeds Rhinos' greatest ever coaches. That letter - predicting another season of disappointment for Leeds - highlighted the uneasy relationship Smith has had with a vociferous section of Rhinos' support throughout his four seasons in charge. Less than three months ago, Smith was subject to some appalling personal abuse after Rhinos slumped to a dismal home defeat by Wakefield Trinity Wildcats. As early as his second season there were calls for him to be sacked, yet on Saturday evening the fans in Old Trafford's East Stand chanted his name as he handed them the perfect leaving gift, the Engage Super League trophy.'" - unfit to coach Leeds - another season of disappointment - uneasy relationship with sections of the fans throughout his reign - subject to appalling personal abuse - calls for him to be sacked Sounds so familiar

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-2118033 Quote ="YEP"Only a couple of weeks ago, the Yorkshire Evening Post printed a reader's letter which dismissed Tony Smith as unfit to be considered one of Leeds Rhinos' greatest ever coaches. That letter - predicting another season of disappointment for Leeds - highlighted the uneasy relationship Smith has had with a vociferous section of Rhinos' support throughout his four seasons in charge. Less than three months ago, Smith was subject to some appalling personal abuse after Rhinos slumped to a dismal home defeat by Wakefield Trinity Wildcats. As early as his second season there were calls for him to be sacked, yet on Saturday evening the fans in Old Trafford's East Stand chanted his name as he handed them the perfect leaving gift, the Engage Super League trophy.'" - unfit to coach Leeds - another season of disappointment - uneasy relationship with sections of the fans throughout his reign - subject to appalling personal abuse - calls for him to be sacked Sounds so familiar

Sport is a fickle industry, and coaches are judged on results, certainly at the top end. Our last 3 coaches have achieved good results, with at least a title every 2 years.

Any other discussion about whether coach A could have done it with a different set of players is entirely fictional

As a 50 year veteran supporter the last 3 coaches all have achieved fantastic results.

The three clubs that Tony Smith has coached in SL have all improved markedly under his control. The mark of a good coach.

No doubt many Leeds fans were initially disappointed when the CEO announced a relative 'no mark' was being appointed to one of the biggest (and most pressured) jobs in RL but he was the type of no-nonsense coach Leeds needed after Powell had steadied the ship and cleared out some of the dead wood post Lance - Powell got them close but he just couldn't get Leeds over the line most notably over the top of Bradford. Under Powell 2 wins from 13 - both within a four month spell in '02 - otherwise a barren wasteland over three full seasons, losing the last seven despite often coming agonisingly close.

Smith arrived and in his first act dropped the hitherto undropable Francis Cummins ending his mammoth run of consecutive appearances in the process. I would say that decision was merited and long overdue but I think Smith would have done it regardless just for the signal it sent out - we're all here to work, places have to be earned, no player gets selected on sentiment. Leeds beat Bradford on six of their next seven meetings - the solitary loss coming in the '04 QSF. Even after a fantastic season of entertaining rugby who among us (at least those old enough to remember the previous 32 years) can honestly say their heart didn't sink at the very real prospect of another potless campaign. Not under this quality coach - the demons were slain two weeks later at Old Trafford and Leeds haven't needed to doubt themselves since.

Of course there will always be an element of looking back through rose-tinted spectacles and I'd be the first to say that Smith didn't get everything right from my point of view but did I care that night at Old Trafford .... did I f***