If that is a criteria for posting delete your username and sell your PC as you know bugger all about anything, misery guts.

I bet thats not your worst insult of the day.

I don't think it's that simple - these things are always fairly cyclic IMHO.

Look at football - you have Manchester United who have the best resources in the world for junior development and poach kids from all over the world and yet they don't manage to produce new stars every year (at best they probably get 1-2 every three years). Also like Leeds they produce a lot more players that ultimately go on to play in the lower leagues or at 'lesser' sides.

I don't want to pish on your fire mate, and at lest you have come up with something constructive, but the Man U argument is a myth, and simply not true.

They continually produce the players ready, it is just felt they are not as good as the stars they already have in the team. you can only play 11 players at a time, and they have many more than that regarded as world stars. How many players do you think Man U have out on loan at any one time? They even have feeder clubs in 3 seperate countries in order to accomodate the production line.

Lets not move the goalposts.

The standard you applied to Leeds was that we should be able to produce "a future star" every year.

Apply this same standard to Manchester United and my argument is sound.

Man United currently have about 6 players in their main squad of about 20 that came from their youth team...three of these are in their 30's. Take their first 30 or so players and you can probably double this number - but given that the range of ages is about 20 years that's still way below a player a year. Also remember that this includes a "freak crop" from the early 90's

Luckily for you I'm very busy this week so I may not be around much to keep you and the other assorted fekkwitts in check, or insult you.

Have fun in my absence.

Nope. I think Leeds with the service area size they have should be producing "future stars" every year.

Of course your not going to produce a Andy Farrell, Adrian Morley, Kevin Sinfield, Danny McGuire, James Roby, etc, each year.

But there is absolutely not excuse for not producing the next Carl Ablett, Luke Burgess, Gareth Hock, Paul Clough, Ryan Atkins, etc. These players are out there in the service area. Players who are better than these at similar ages. Its how we are developing them through the system now that is the problem.

Lets put it another way, if it was as cyclic as you say, then the emphasis on a club to remain challengers would be to go through stages, of produce, buy, produce, buy. The aim of having a dominant team produced from homegrown players is simply a pipe dream then? It would never happen.

Dont Leeds produce players every year who then go on to fill up other SL teams?

Isnt McIlorum from Leeds? He was highly rated.

Edited for accuracy.

Both my boys have come through the junior ranks at Kippax and Lock Lane there were some great kids in their leagues that you think should be starting to rear their head - sadly it doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

I think to simply blame the club is only part of the story - having McDermot as head of youth development is a joke to me as is having Poching as academy coach.

1. You have to also question the desire of the players perhaps the Sinfield's/McGuire's/Burrow had more desire than their current counterparts - too many good kids seem to never reach their potential.

2. What is the role of the academy is it to develop players potential to ready them for first team football or to win the academy league?

3. If you were a top quality half back and you had the choice of Leeds or Castleford where would you go - at Leeds your chances are slim at best same goes for loose forward etc.

4. Finally the club maybe concentrates its scouting on filling positions where they have a weakness - Watkins emerging is no fluke the fact that Leeds have a weakness in the centres and they have found a potential star is no fluke IMO but a targeted piece of scouting.

I think you spot on with the coaching and spot on with point 4. Dissagree on the others though.

Watkins actually came from the Manchester service area. Therefore backing up your point of targeting and getting.

But what have they been doing with the rest then? Its already been commented by people defending our academy operation that the pack is too small. That been the case, why? other academy teams seem to have got the players why not us?

But other than the targeted Watkins, what other player is there that looks like he will be a star?

I know from personal experience, that Chris Clarkson was an absolute star in the making. I speak to a few of the scouts who were after him, who say in any other set up he would have been playing first team by now. Where is he in the Leeds pecking order? somethings gone wrong there. Of course it could also be down to desire which you stated earlier.

He's been mentioned by many people now so maybe it's just a matter of time before he break's through!!
As for poching wasn't he coaching with the scholarship 1st???
So surely he's been assessed rather than a "job's for the boy's" attitude??

Paul McShane, Ben Jones-Bishop, Luke Burgess.

You mean like Daryl Powell was when he got the first team coach job?

The lower grade system is about to change as well. There are plans to scrap the reserve grade as it is and introduce an Under 20's competition as it the case in Australia at the moment.

I don't know why people are getting too beat up over the reserves at the moment, it's a crap competition. It's no preparation for Super League. The jump in class is simply too much. It would be better if some of these kids got chance to play for a championship club and were brought into Super League in this way.

Although fortunate to play for his own club, 12 months in what is now the Championship hasn't done Richard Myler any harm has it?

He started with the kids and was in the right place at the right time.
Whatever people think of powell barring Ali it was his squad that ended the 32yr drought in the championship stake's,plus he got rid of the "deadwood" in the squad and gave player's like burrow,mcguire,walker,bailey and ward their 1st team break.
I don't take nothing away Tony smith's influence he's a legend and his place in the club's history is a shoe in,but don't dismiss powell's impact on the team.

Spot on Oldham, look at Joe Westerman, and Shenton at Cas as well. The jump from the championship to SL is still massive, but nowhere near as big as the step up from the reserves.

Thats all well and good OR, and whilst I dont dissagree with you, How many do Leeds have out on loan at the moment? Broughton and.......

No it wasn't.

It was Dean Bells

You know full well what i meant!!

I agree with what Oldham Rhino put. But seriously, as the poster put up above, where are these players out on loan? Playing in the National Leagues is good preparation for them.

I hear good things about this Jack Carvill. Seems a good long term replacement for Sinny. Also from what I hear he already has a good build, which is what some youngsters lack. Get him out on loan early.

They can't loan everyone out, they need to keep some bodies back to actually play for the reserves.

So how many are loaned out? Which players are they?

Will that really help?
The academy and reserve grade is terrible. Wigan reserves have played 6 won 6 and are winning almost every game by 30 points or more and not breaking sweat.

How moving to U20's will change things I don't know.
Apart from Pryce and Flanagan, the entire team that played on Saturday were under 20 anyway, and quite a few still qualify at U18.

We tried U21 a few years back, but there were so few players available that they allowed up to nine over age players in the 17.

How will U20 change that? Where are all these young players going to come from or will they scrap the U18 academy?

I'm think it's just Broughton at the moment. To be honest I don't really know.