Unlike Harris, it's also failing to bring anything down but itself if the closure of the central Leeds branch is anything to go by.

And still be able to use your vote for UKIP and Brexit like the other expats.

Most expats want us to stay in - especially those living on Gibraltor

A strange thought given the same group is opening a huge store less than 10 minutes walk away?

Capitalism alive and kicking - thank goodness

Of course why not!

I have lived and worked over here since 2002 apart from a taking a gap 3 years to spend time with our new grandchildren in Morayshire recently. We even voted in the Scottish referendum but that was to stay in!

As you probably know, Waitrose & John Lewis are unique amongst major retailers by being owned by their employees thanks to the foresight & beneficence of their founder.
Therefore not the normal capitalist model.
Possibly one of the reasons why W E shops there.

I seem to remember half a thread on this the last time it came up.

Our town (we don't live there but it's where the kids go to school) is very old, small and wealthy, a bit like the population by the looks of things in the barbers this morning. We have a Co-op's and a Waitrose. The Co-op is the place I go and pretend it's 1987 and I'm back on the dole and the Waitrose is where I go to be wallet raped.

Bet you get a winter fuel payment to heat your swimming pool too...

Some proper old school thread drift here. Well done. Makes me feel all nostalgic.

Well you can always rely on William and his follower Sal drifting a thread towards Australia or along the lines of how cr@p things are. Tried likewise on the Lilley thread and even the Millward RIP thread they had to get in sly "back when we could produce proper quality" barbs on a thread designed to pay respect to somebody who has passed away, not have a concealed dig about today's product, but nothing surprises me about their lack of class.

No need the sun heats the pool. As it happens I don't get the winter fuel payment because I wasn't retirement age when we first came here so I miss out. However I do not begrudge those that do because it is a supplement to what is a low basic pension and although there are 320 days of sunshine p.a. houses still need heating in the evenings for 3 winter months and unlike you need air conditioning in 3 summer months. So why should pensioners that worked and paid into the pot for the full quota be penalised just because they choose to spend their retirement in the sunshine?

For the record many pensioners living in Spain are taxed at source in the UK and I pay personal tax in Spain and company tax in the UK. I would guess that the majority of expats here will vote to remain because of the risk of losing the excellent free health care. I favour democracy and therefore Brexit.

At present I'm minded not to vote in the Conservative leadership campaign.

Cameron claimed he'd be prepared to lead the leave campaign if he didn't get what he was asking for (which was next to nowt to begin with) he didn't and now claims the country will implode if we leave.

If leaving is going to be so disastrous why would any sane government open the exit door or take any notice of an adverse result.

None of it makes any sense.

Nail on the head.

This EU referendum is all about the Tories and the leadership of the party.

More specifically, it's becoming a spat between two former Bullingdon Club members.

Stay or Go? Doesn't matter. We'll still get shafted either way. Choice between two neoliberal paths ain't a choice IMO.

Absolutely.

Makes me laugh when people stay we need to grab back our sovereignity and democracy. Do they really think it will make a blind bit of difference to their average Joe who gives a toss about your lives? FPTP is hardly a beacon of democracy. If voting could really change anything it would be made illegal. Bring on a USE for me, if only to fuk off the Tories. Labour is dead now with the rise of SNP and the boundary changes

Care not for voting or whose in charge, I'm doing a good job of looking after myself regardless of whose running the country. Those that b*tch and whine about it should look at themselves, because if they did things right it wouldn't matter which party ran the country.

Good luck looking after yourself if you fall badly ill.

Yet I won't fair any worst than those who do vote.

Bullsh|t.

Yep, exactly.

I'm more concerned about TTIP and so should everyone else.

Do we get to vote on that horrific and sinister piece of corporate takeover?

Of course we don't.

Good luck convincing the neoliberal the true value of anything beyond Me, Me, Me.

You're born
You die
Sh*t happens inbetween
Don't spend my time worrying about it and fighting to challenge, fight and alter it

Does that make me naive, insensitive or uncaring? Maybe.....but I'll still end up at the same end point as the rest of you at the end of it all.

Thats not the same as what you said. You said as long as you look after yourself you'll be ok. That's not true. There are myriad ways in which your life can and will be affected by somebody or something else. As mentioned, when/if you fall ill you may wish you'd voted or campaigned for a party that wasn't going to privatise the NHS. When/if you have children, you may wish you'd voted or campaigned for a party that wasn't going to privatise the education system. When/if you reach retirement age, you may wish you'd voted or campaigned for a party that wasn't going to decimate pensions in favour of short term economic gain. When/if you ever get made redundant you may wish you'd voted or campaigned for a party that wasn't going to demonise you as a scrounger and make you work for free. If, god forbid, you suffer some kind of accident or illness that leaves you disabled, you may wish you'd voted or campaigned for a party that wasn't going to target disabled and vulnerable people for funding cuts.

Don't believe the right wing media bull that deliberately furthers the "they're all the same" line. There is a choice at elections. They'll all screw you over because they don't have a choice not to, but your choice is between screwing the poor, vulnerable, sick, unemployed even more than usual, along with furthering the strength of the rich. Or doing those things only a little.
Might not seem like a choice but it makes a big difference to a lot of people's lives. As you'll see in the future when the already privatised hospitals start charging and the soon to be privatised schools first introduce entry requirements to keep the riff-raff out, and then eventually charge too.

Those at the top are generally utter b&stards and so you should take every opportunity possible to even slightly restrict their opportunity to screw over ordinary people.

Thank you HIM for a very good post. I must admit I have continually doubted my political allegiance over the last six months or so, and started edging in a direction I never thought I would. That post has actually just made me rethink, and remind me of my own beliefs previously and why I had them.

I've doubted my political allegiance for years and have voted for 4 different parties for different reasons at different elections, the only main parties I've completely refused to vote for at any level are UKIP and the BNP. My views on issues aren't encapsulated by any one party but when there are such assaults on what I'd describe as the basis of civilisation (free and universal healthcare, free and universal education, treating vulnerable/disabled people with dignity etc) then I think you have to do what you can to keep those things regardless of who's threatening them. And voting is the one thing that everyone can do.

I'd also tie it back in to RL. Back in 1895 when the rich/privileged/establishment tried to hold back the dirty northern oiks who were giving them a much deserved kicking every week, we stood together and told them to get stuffed.

But it was the Labour party of Blair/Brown that introduce some private outsourcing of the NHS. The same party that threw huge money at the NHS which was wasted. There are many countries that have far better and more efficient public health services that are partly run by the private sector.



Again the private sector has shown it can provide the best education in the country.



It was the Labour chancellor Gordon Brown who decimated the pensions and sold off all our gold reserves for a short term economic/political gain.



Or on the other hand you may wish you had voted for a party that wasn't so economically inept with its borrow and spend policies that caused the cuts and which we are all still paying for so many years on. A party that is run by a narrow metropolitan elite who have no idea how to create the wealth needed to pay for our public services. I think many people have finally seen the Labour party for what it really is and will vote them out in large numbers today.