Sorry I didn't realise I couldn't talk about the hooker position in isolation.

Do you think Falloon was McDermott first choice or that Hetherington didn't mess up not making sure he signed a better 9?

Are you going to debate like a grown up the point at hand or have you just come along to yet again jump on somebody else's debate with me because your obsession with me is becoming really tedious and pathetic and you're making yourself look obsessed and childish.

Printer i think we are all in agreement that Falloon isnt the number 9 to go into next year with but the reality is both McD and GH will have agreed the deal and both will have done their homework on him. Just because the signing hasnt worked out, like many dont at all clubs, doesnt mean that it was a panic buy.

You claim it wasnt McD's choice but it was kind of forced on him by GH because he did nothing about signing a 9 until only Falloon was available but there is no evidence of this. How do we know GH didnt want him and McD didnt push for it with GH accepting it on a 1 yr deal only??The truth is none of us have a scooby so no point making things up about it.

I believe both hoped Falloon would work out given his NRL experience but as we all agree it hasnt. Isnt the 1st and wont be the last.

Falloon was one of the group of Titans more interested in partying than playing and Leeds signed him soon after he was effectively released. I wouldn't have gone near him except in desperation because of his attitude and the fact he was nondescript in one of the weakest NRL sides. I expect GH would probably admit the same given the timing of his signing and the fact he was only given one year.

Agreed. Thank goodness they didn't give him a 4 year like Achurch.

I can see why they went for Achurch. He was young, wouldn't count on the Overseas Quota, big, quick and got an offload.
Unfortunately he hasn't improved over the 4 years and hasn't developed any aggression either.

Yes, but if it's true he is one of the top earners it was a gamble that has bombed badly TBH.

TBF to Achurch, he has shown glimpses of his latent abilities while here, few and far between as they may be. He just seems to have fallen into that trap of not being played / injuries and overall just not trusted, very similar to Hauraki etc before him.

None of us know the management or boardroom discussions that go on in private. But I would say that most onlookers would agree that Caddick holds the purse strings and that GH is a frugal manager and it is my understanding that he plays the lead role in recruitment with the final say. BM (& other coaches before) will have taken the job knowing this. So to suggest the if Mac did not get his way on recruitment he should have resigned is easy for others to say when it is not their livelihood at stake.

As events have proven our recruitment policy to cover the loss of Sinfield & JP was seriously flawed and if I am right with regard to the above then this would explain why GH can hardly sack Mac when the responsibility is with himself.

There are too many coincidences to be ignored for our dramatic fall from grace. First major factor IMO is the the loss of our 2 best and most important players which have left the side leaderless on and off field and which appears to have caused a catastrophic loss of confidence and it has also shown some of the squad to have been well overrated. The second major factor is the still ongoing season long serious injury crisis which cannot be brushed aside so easily. The destruction of the training facilities was also a factor but one that should have been overcome some time ago. The coach and his methods are the same as when we won so many trophies so why would he suddenly lose the dressing room and from what I hear they are all working hard in training.

The one unexplained fact is the woeful performances from the likes of senior players Hardaker and Watkins which has gone on too long just to be poor form. I still have a nagging feeling that some players may have other issues and usually serious ones concern money. Could it be the bonus for winning the treble was disappointing or could our close season attempt to sign Sam Burgess have involved and upset certain players going the other way or could it have blown apart the players faith in the current pay policy?

I claim no inside knowledge and I do not know any of the players Dad's, just musings to try to explain some of the possible factors.

Definitely agree there. Though I always take rumours of players wages with a huge pinch of salt.

I think you are being too kind on him here. He's played far more than I would have had him playing.

Well certainly this year it's been due to a lack of alternatives, with Ward and Ablett both missing and JJB not having the legs to play as a wide-running second rower any more.

Even though confirmed leaving at end of year, Achurch has had ample opportunity this year to show what he can do, to potentially earn another contract in superleague. The odd moment apart he has looked very average & his gutless performance v Hull (And big Frank in particular) was a disgrace to the shirt.

For the record, I can claim no inside knowledge but I have dealt with Caddick's other businesses extensively over the last few years. My experience would suggest to me that Caddick allows a good deal of autonomy within his various businesses and that he is not massively involved in day to day decision making. So, if mistakes have been made, I would suggest that the book stops with GH.

With regards to GH, if he has made mistakes, I would suggest that he is allowed more than a little latitude given the way the club has perfumed since he was involved. In a similar fashion, I think McDermott is entitled be afforded the benefit of the doubt.

I have to agree that the performances of the likes of Watkins, Hardaker and Hall before he was injured, are somewhat surprising, although it has been suggested to me that Hardaker has some personal issues.

Where I disagree is with regards to past performances, the frailties we are currently experiencing were evident last year and the year before. With some consistency over McDermott's tenure, we have struggled to convert red zone pressure into points and the marker defence has been found wanting. The structural deficiencies on Friday were laughable; we conceded two tries directly from acting half back, one of those without the attacking player being touched and another score came directly from a penalty tap. Any fully professional team can have no excuse for such basic errors.

Have to agree...I was of the opinion Achurch never really got a chance to show what he can do in his undoubted better position of wide running Paul Medlley-like-second-rower ....but this season by default he has had ample opportunity to promote his credentials. He has failed; proving he has even less appetite for the 'dirty stuff' than the afore mentioned Medley.

Still...he would def mak a better winger than Golding or Luke Briscoe: we really are scraping the barrell.

Just a quick query for discussion on the try scored by Clarke(?) from acting half. The two defenders on either side of marker were Cuthburtson and Galloway. These two have been caught out in a similar fashion on about five or six occasions to my knowledge. Coming from the NRL, are they expecting the marker defence to be much better and quite frankly, should the marker defence be better? To quote JC, just a musing.

Five or six occassions?? Either way is it not about time they realised the issues and tried to remedy them in training and stopped the problem by the time they reach the playing field?

Cuthbertson was - sort of - at marker for the final try of the night IIRC, but despite not standing square still wasn't able to make the tackle on Clark (had a shot at his ankles but he stepped out of it).

Galloway was at A defender to the left of the ruck, and flew up to deal with the non-existent threat of the first receiver rather than spotting Cuthbertson struggling and tucking in to give him some help. Not the first time he's done that at A defender this season either, JJB being another common culprit.

The threat is always the ball. The bloke with it is the one you need to deal with. Rushing out of the line seems to be an attempt to make it look like it's not your problem. You had your man, not your fault if the dummy half then strolls through the gap you left because he's too quick for the markers.

At least the Warrington score from a tap last week required a pass so some improvement over the effort for the Gelling try at the DW Stadium. No not really, especially as same enthusiastic Leeds defender involved in both.

Yep. With a reasonably quick PTB Clarke is more than capable of getting beyond the first marker, second marker would have a better chance but the hole he walked through to score was left by Galloway running straight up the pitch, passing Clarke coming the other way, for some truly mysterious reason (no attacker in sight).
We have some old boys in the middle who are so lacking in confidence pace wise that they are charging out of the defensive line rather than reacting to what the attack is doing. if you are agile and can change direction quickly then moving up quick can be very effective - although it's always good to spot a runner first rather than just run at nothing - but I could step Galloway with my feet tied together.
It highlights - along with the stupidity of Achurch for Dwyer's try - that it's not confidence or lack of effort it's just plain stupidity on defence or in some cases guys who are simply past it.

Second marker was Ferres IIRC, but he'd already indicated he was going right. All the more reason for Galloway to get his head up and tuck in a bit to give Cuthbertson (who was way too tight because he was late getting into position) a bit of cover.

Like you say, there are players trying to cheat in defence because they know they can't get where they need to be otherwise. Ablett did it on the right edge a few times early in the year, handing off a player on his inside to nobody in particular so he can start sliding towards the touchline.

The disease of conceding from tap penalties isn't just restricted to the first team. The 19s conceded one at Cas where four players had a shot at the ball carrier one pass out from a tap and he still got the ball down. Not one of them actually hit below the waist.

Galloway, Garbutt and Cuthbertson have spent their careers using strength rather than speed stopping big men running straight at them from the ruck. On the occasions where a smaller, more mobile man takes a dart the Galloway would have had Robbie Farah - lower to the ground, more nimble - to make the initial tackle - probably from marker - before the prop comes in to add force.

There's a reason 18st 6'4'' guys struggle against pace from the ptb, and there's a reason no other team defends every tackle with a prop on either side of the ruck with a big gap between them, and there's a reason that there's a position called hooker, where a smaller, quicker but still strong forward is involved in 40-50 tackles per game.

I actually do agree with you that frailties were evident last year including a massive drop off after the Wembley win. I felt there were clear signs that several in the squad were getting on and past achieving their best on a weekly basis and I saw flaws in Watkins, Hardaker and Sutcliffe. The management took a gamble on Sutcliffe recovering from serious injury and being good enough to start at 6 and they also risked McGuire staying free from injury.

However nobody could have predicted the extent and length of the injuries nor the inability of the team to play to the previous structures without on field leaders telling them where to stand and what to do. There does seem a lack of rugby nouse in some of them. Laziness and poor awareness at marker have cost us so many points this year and I do not think the squad looks fit enough.

Last year Cuthbertson with his offloads was a key element in our success. Towards the end of last season there were also clear signs that opposition sides had begun to work out how to deal with him so this year he is nowhere near as effective which has led him to make silly offloads which lose possession.

So we have a series of factors which when added together have brought about this huge loss of confidence creating a negative momentum leading to our downfall. Perhaps the return to fuller strength and a period in the middle 8s will see us become competitive again but we still need to recuit some top quality playmaker/leadership.

Do you not think they will have been working on this? My worry is that some of the players are not good enough without onfield mentors as they lack the rugby nouse to spot the dangers.

Head coach still doing a first class job though?

Just asking.

You're deliberately missing Ronzy's point that the quoted frailties (a) red zone pressure, b) marker defence) have been apparent CONSISTENTLY through McDermott's tenure. With an exception that proves the rule over the first half of 2015 when Aiton was playing Booker the only answers he's seemed to have have been for a) Kev will do something, and for b) Jamie will do something. Without that - and also without the fig leaf of Hardaker's try-stopping cover defence - we look completely lost, but it's not like the potential problems have been hidden for the last few years.