Go on, say it 'i was wrong', it'll feel good I promise.

You can start - seeing as you seem to be in such an evangelical mood - but we all know its never going to happen - hypocritical I would call that - wouldn't you?

The problem is where people look foolish is that the whole board is a peeing contest and debates arent conducted as they would be in person, instead you get these statements without proper counterbalance, ie 'yeah good point, I just think...'

Go on then, what would you like me to confess to being wrong about?

I would agree - but the childish/triumphalist nature of those putting the boot in e.g. your post, doesn't encourage the correct level of debate. So don't complain when you are part of the problem. Its schoolyard bullying and reflects very badly on most who join in.

Hardaker has definitely kicked this season helped by playing in a dominant side. He still has aspects of his game that can be improved. His apologists would do well to accept his failing when they are pointed out rather than bleat/distract and blame somebody else.

You are seriously suggesting that every post you have made has proved to be correct? We both know that is not correct if I could be bothered I could look back over your posting history and find a number - life is too short. The fact you think that everything you say is gospel say much about your attitude.

You're probably right and I'm sorry. Though it's frustrating reading these boards with people carrying on as they do, be nice to see someone actually hold their hands up, or in the first place be a little more measured in their approach.

I don't think everything I say is Gospel, I just try to be measured in my view.

Here's one for you, that winger who came over to cover BJB, from seeing some of his clips, I thought to myself 'think he'll go Ok'. Very wrong.

Maybe some failings are more deserving to be pointed out and laughed at

Just sign Theo Fages from Salford. Can play Hooker and half back and is a real live wire around the play the ball. Scored 20 tries in 60 games for Salford and is still only 20 I believe, Fantastic future ahead of him. Would need a fee but it was also p**s Marwin off ha ha

Talk about childish style of posting from others that doesn't encourage debate but then call people who praise Hardaker or don't hold the same view as you about him as "apologists".......the irony.

Has Theo Fages agent started posting on here lately?

Don't think I've ever seen him mentioned as the sort of player Leeds should be after prior to his falling out with Salford. Just because he might be available on a free doesn't make him a better fit, certainly not at hooker where he's rarely played IIRC.

I have already said the loss of Aiton is a blow and he played very well before his unfortunate injury but to state "it was a massive drop in what Burrow brought to the team" is a simplistic and unbalanced view.

Firstly Aiton and Burrow are quite different players who offer the team quite different ways to to play to make a positive impact on a game.

Secondly Aiton has started recent games where we have a clear game plan worked out on the training pitch and successfully put into effect in the first 20 minutes. But this success was not achieved by Aiton alone but by the energetic and determined lines of running and offloading from the rest of the pack. When Burrow comes on for Aiton the game is in a very different state with the initial speed of the forward game reduced and often subs on too. So if Aiton were to stay on you would naturally see the same drop off you talk of. Momentum swings in every game even those in which we dominate. So when we have a fast dominating start it is to be expected that a change in momentum will happen at some later point. This is why I say your comment is simplistic.

Then to ignore the positive impact Burrow has brought to recent key matches in a way that Aiton is unable to match shows either some bias or questionable judgement.

Yes Aiton has been dynamic but had Burrow started in those games given the same way the rest of the pack played IMO we would still have dominated the opposition with the same result IMO



Is this where you learnt to speak Greek?

At no time have I said we should have got rid of Hardaker and yes I wanted to keep BJB too. In the interest of balance in the face of almost hysterical praise for Zak, I have pointed out his deficiencies, much to your displeasure, which have been mainly to do with his failure to pass on attack and on his sometimes poor positional FB play in defence when following behind the ball as it is passed across the field by the attacking side resulting in no FB when a tackle is busted.

However I have also praised Zak's strengths at many different times. He is a great physical player with the ability to break tackles and make tackles and is excellent on kick returns. He has improved in some areas and overall is currently the best FB in SL. However he still shows a lack of awareness of when to pass without which he cannot be regarded as "classy". An example of which he displayed against Warrington on Friday night. Having made a great break all he had to do was pass for a certain score but he chose to be greedy and go for glory but failed to score. In another game this could have cost 2 points. This is a lack of a basic rugby skill that he has shown throughout his career. Having said that there are signs that Hardaker is maturing and I hope he will develop his passing skills and come to realise this will be appreciated by fans in the way we all appreciated the wonderfully creative John Holmes.



No my comments have been consistent with regard both his failure to pass on attack and his occasional poor positioning when the opposition are in our red zone. Yes he has improved on attack as have all the side as they have embraced the coaches attacking methodology. I think he may have made the pass to Burrow out of guilt having chosen not to on two previous occasions one of which cost us a try.

Rugby is a simple game and should not be made complex or high risk. It is a running and passing game with the object of putting teammates into space so they can score. Since my coaching days I have regarded a failure to pass to the man in space as a rugby cardinal sin and is usually a product of a player who hasn't learnt the finer skills often because they rely solely on physical dominance.



The whole of SL are talking and appreciating our current successful and attractive style of play ironically our own fans have been slow to appreciate the transition and Brian McDermott's contribution

You ARE funny! Yes Hardaker went for glory instead of passing to the supporting McGuire and 'cost a try', but do you really think he would have done the same if it had been a critically needed score?

As for passing to Burrow because he felt 'guilty' he passed because he knew he had made a mistake previously I'm sure, but to say he felt 'guility' is daft. What exactly did he need to feel 'guilty' about in his contribution to the match?

...and like it or not you had constantly advocated BJB over Hardaker at FB; even suggesting Hardaker would be better on the wing !!!!

Yes, having a player who is defensively weaker, has a much worse pass from dummy half and often crabs sideways before throwing mediocre passes to marked team-mates in one of the key positions for 80 minutes in no way weakens the team.

Seriously.

I appreciate everything Rob Burrow has done for Leeds, but arguing that he's every bit as good as Aiton as a starting hooker is obstinacy mired in nostalgia.

Printer, surely you don't think I'm responsible of such malice. I was gonna stick the pins in at the start of next season

I am huge admirer of Aiton from a physical commitment perspective. It was just his financially driven lack of loyalty I questioned. Like I said before, everyone has different goals in life, some people are primarily financially motivated, I'm not. I think it's a crying shame for Aiton and our club that he has broken his arm. I wish him all the best for his recovery, and genuinely feel for him missing out on possibly two finals and medals/rings. We never know what is around the corner, for me physical wellbeing for me and my family is the most important thing. I'm sure it is for Aiton too.......and then the money.

Do you not get a medal if you are not in the cup final squad? I had assumed that if involved at some point you get one by default?

That probably should be the case, certainly if you play in a semi final. I thought clubs were allocated a set number of medals and they'd choose who got them beyond the 17 on the day plus head coach?

Timing of the pass to the runner is critical at dummy half, the forwards seem to trust ,Ailton's timing and are running hard onto the ball, Anyone who plays or has played knows the huge difference it makes when you get a pass you don't have to slow down for, reach back or forward for, Ailton has really got his timing nailed in the last few games and it adds 2-3 metres of go forward and makes a quick PTB more likely, I think Burrow has been an amazing player and still does some tremendous things, he would always be in my 17, But his dummy half passing is not as sharp or as well timed as Aiton's.
Yes he can crab sideways and find gaps - all good half backs used to do that in the past - running sideways is not a problem in league - Andy Gregory was a master at tempting defenders out of the line and punishing them - but you don't want your hooker doing it.

Aiton out for the season.

It actually feels just like 2005 with this news. I think some still underestimate the contribution he has made to how well we play.

I wish i shared Juan's optimism about Burrow being a more than capable replacement, but i just don't see any of the skills that have made Aiton a success this year in Burrow's game. In tandem they work well with Aiton doing the "hard graft", fierce defense and getting the forwards rolling up the pitch then Burrow bringing his darting runs against a tired defense. With Aiton out, every player will have to up their defense whilst Burrow is on the pitch. You cant get away from the fact that he is a passenger in defense!

Aiton easy chucks in 30/40 tackles a game. Those tackles still need making.

Exactly....as others have said Aiton has been massively under-rated by some as to what he has brought to the team. I too wish i could remain optimistic but it does smack of 2005 ...exciting rugby only to slowly fizzle to a season of no trophies.

I will now be satisfied if the team does just indeed settle on trying to win the CC: now in itself alone a much bigger ask.

I'm not getting that despondent about the rest of the season!! Its just going to be a lot tougher without Aiton in the ranks!