Lets not kid ourselves, most teams were crap last year as well, the difference between the total amount of points scored last year and the amount scored this year is negligible (36)

It would seem, shall we say 'convenient' for us to be looking at conceding 99 more points as the problem, when we scored 350 points less.

You seem almost disappointed we have improved, its not long since you were banging on about how we were worse than Wakefield last year.

A couple of obvious flaws. Sinfield doesn't play for us anymore, are we saying any old HB can go defend at loose? Jordan Lilley perhaps? Even when Sinfield was still here you clearly couldn't ask him to defend in the middle every week at his age, one thing to do it in his 20's....mid 30's is another thing, no way would he last. Also what happens to your attack if one of your HB's has knackered himself out doing silly amounts of tackles against opposition forwards? Don't say it use to work because it didn't. When Sinfield was at loose we still had McGuire and Burrow along with Sinfield in the attacking line to share duties.....if Burrow was at DH that leaves McGuire with a knackered worn out Sinfield next to him.



If you want to look daft and like you've only started watching RL about a month ago by making out that the work and passing at dummy half isn't a skill and any old player could do it then so be it, those of us with common sense and knowledge of RL will disagree.

How many games has McGuire played this year btw? You make it sound like those three have been the 6,7,9 every week. The points against would've been much higher had it not been for the strong end to the season. 0 & 6 points conceded vs Salford and Wakey.....Falloon was back in the team, Segeyaro comes in and we concede only 15 & 16 against Hull and Wigan. When we beat Saints and Hull at home earlier in the year just 18 points both times.....Falloon started.

Your point about total points is flawed because most of our lowest conceded totals this year came when a proper hooker played and defended in the middle.

Guess who was starting hooker when we conceded 52 points vs Warrington and Cas and 56 vs Widnes......yes Mr Burrow.

No we are specifically, and had you been able to read properly you would be well aware) not saying that. Lilley is neither a good enough defender nor in offence right now.

THough i have to question how having Sinfield Mcguire and Burrow sharing those share those duties didnt work because Sinfield had McGuire and Burrow share those duties with him.

Just as a little stat that might be relevant, Kevin Sinfield was our top tackler every year of the threepeat. He has been a top 5 tackler in 10 of his last 12 seasons. The other two he was 6th and 8th. It did work ok.
I mean it is a skill that Beau Falloon did for 7 years in the NRL.

And didnt you tell me we went with Adam Cuthbertson as a hooker in the challenge cup final?

But numbers don't tell the whole story, although extra tackles for Watkins or whoever don't look like loads, it is the impact they have and the impact that can be seen by everyone when burrow plays large minutes at hooker.

In terms of the stats you've quoted they aren't really a direct comparison as subs were high then resulting in forwards doing less game time and therefore less tackles.

What it does show is that the guy you name at hooker is expected to tackle. It also shows that halves get targeted in defence a lot, and a lot of the time centres are the ones who spend time covering them. But everyone knows that.

So even the universally derived as poor Falloon was able to make a difference to our defence. I didn't realise he'd played in most of our early season wins. And also just before Hardaker went. Still I'm sure it was a coincidence.

Why would anyone be dissapointed we improved enough to avoid relegation? thank god we signed an hooker that made that happen. We were worse than Wakey last year, again before that hooker signing who is simply off a different planet to any one else in this side.

Didnt we concede 38 against Sts with Falloon in the side? Didnt we concede 28 to London with Segeyaro? Wasnt it JJB, a better defender than any of them, who started at 9 against Wigan and we conceded 40?

Who was hooker when we only concede 12 to warrington? Its almost like anyone could pick a result out and decide it representative of something, and anyone could invent an alternate reality where something different happened and pretend it backed them up.

Other than the fact we had already gained more points than Wakefield before Segeyaro arrived, as well as conceding fewer.

Thhough i agree, signing a great player was great for us.

I can't argue with that.

Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly.

As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF?

If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps.

A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me"

We named him at hooker, we all know he didn't jump into dummy half during the game though.

SegEyaro has made a huge difference to us and his play on attack has been key in the home wins v HKR and Salford. I was sat in Carnegie stand and saw him shout "wide" to moon when we were clearing out lines in first half. He threw a fine long pass, moon made one of his mazy run breaks to halfway and we scored a minute or so later. He scored the breakaway try and put a great ball to cuthbo at the end. He has thrown excellent line balls to Watkins in recent weeks on the opposition goal lines leading to tries. Now if we could get a half with a kicking game of the same quality and perhaps a young mobile forward things would look a lot better.

Quote ="ThePrinter"Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly. As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF?'" I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Quote If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps.'" Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? Quote A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me"'" 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.

Quote ="ThePrinter"Yes we did concede 38 vs Saints and if I recall Falloon couldn't make it through the game with a back injury. You could we were tossing it off vs London given the opposition. As for the 12 vs Warrington, exactly one of the points being made, it's ok doing it week 1 when everyone is fresh,, once the weeks and games start adding up then it's a different story to keep doing weekly. As for the one about JJB being a good defender, this is the problem with the whole "just get someone else to make those 30 tackles". You can't just throw any old body into that role and say do his tackles. Hookers might defend in the same part of the pitch as props but their defence is different. Your props give you your size and strength and collosion in defence, your hooker your pace, mobility, line speed, energy. How many props would make the tackle Houghton made to win the CC? How many hookers would make the kind of hit Leuluai put on Higham to dislodge the ball in the 2012 GF?'" I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Quote If you have 4 big forwards in the middle you'll get done for pace around the ruck, if you had 4 hookers in the middle you'd get done for size and strength. You need that more mobile quicker defender in that part of the pitch, you can't just have all slower big lumps.'" Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? Quote A hooker and prop offer you different things in that middle defence, you need both like you try and say with balancing things out. You need size and strength, but you need mobility and speed too, so we can't just lump JJB or Delaney there and say "here do the hooker's tackles for me"'" 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.

Why are only those players allowed to go to dummy half?
Surely not? Its surely crazy talk that the traditional duties of a hooker were shared between other members of the team? we must have been thrashed in that game?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. .'" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. .'" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.'" Lautiiti and Ellis played 2nd row differently but they still played it in both attack and defence. Name one other player that plays attack in one position and defends in another position ( from the usual standard positions in defence) especially at hooker.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"I do remember the pace, mobility and line speed, the sheer energy of Keiron Cunningham, or Mike Mcilorum, real speedsters those guys. I certainly can't imagine Terry Newton could put in a big hit like Kylie Lueluai, Nor a player like Ian Kirke chasing back and making a tackle. If you told me that a bit lump like Gordon Tallis were to catch and tackle a speedster like Brett Hodgson i would be shocked, shocked i tell you one thing we can be certain of is james graham can't do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBDvV9i-bIg Why are we now having these slower lumps? Is there a reason why think only slower players can make additional tackles? 1 hooker and another hooker offer you different things. JJB and Delany offer you differnt things. Benny Elias wasnt Keiron Cunningham nor was he Terry Newton, nor was he Eloi Pelissier, Cam Smith doesnt play how james Roby plays. All are hookers. All play the game differently. Similarly Gareth Ellis and Ali Lauitiiti played the same postion, they are vastly different players. James Graham and Keith Galloway play the same position they are even both ginger. They do different things though.'" Lautiiti and Ellis played 2nd row differently but they still played it in both attack and defence. Name one other player that plays attack in one position and defends in another position ( from the usual standard positions in defence) especially at hooker.

Quote ="DHM"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.'" No, you are wrong, big players can't cover tackle, and little players can't smash players off the field https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTBtXLe5X7A

Quote ="DHM"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwfxFjF1a8E Yep, Cunningham was a fantastically mobile 9 with real gas.'" No, you are wrong, big players can't cover tackle, and little players can't smash players off the field https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTBtXLe5X7A

Did they? because Ali Lauitiiti made a shed load fewer tackles than Gareth Ellis did. So who has making those tackles?

There are no set positions for defence. This isnt the NFL.

THREAD DRIFT, THREAD DRIFT.

It's to be hoped you're back challenging for honors next year, if this is the result.

Is he staying or not?

Dunno. Its just fun watching people try to defend Burrow as a hooker. Which he isn't.

Yet throughout RL every team defends the same which is

FB
RW - SO/SH - RC - RSR - LF/P/P/H - LSR - LC - SO/SH - LW

Except Leeds' backup emergency plan which you're trying to convince people is the exolution of the hooker role, even though no one else does it, not even Leeds when their proper hooker is fit and available. Just because they aren't written down in a rule book for you doesn't mean they don't exist throughout the game.

I can only see one person trying, and he won't let it go

Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"THREAD DRIFT, THREAD DRIFT. It's to be hoped you're back challenging for honors next year, if this is the result. Is he staying or not?'" The news we've been waiting for! www.therhinos.co.uk/news/james-s ... 9JJPEnTWBY

Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"THREAD DRIFT, THREAD DRIFT. It's to be hoped you're back challenging for honors next year, if this is the result. Is he staying or not?'" The news we've been waiting for! www.therhinos.co.uk/news/james-s ... 9JJPEnTWBY

Awesome news.